Renault on 17/4/2013 at 19:26
I just see diehard fans here speaking their mind - not sure where all this talk about "vileness" comes from, or how the community is rude and they're ashamed to be a part of it. It's good for a fan base to voice their opinion. Look at it this way - EM isn't creating a new IP here, they're utilizing one that's already popular (legendary some might say) and yes they're trying to capitalize on that. A lot of their marketing and branding is already done for them because of it's history. The tradeoff is that when you do that, you risk upsetting the core groups of fans that made the game popular in the first place. EM knows this all too well, and I'm sure they completely accept it.
Posts like the ones from boots and Kovitlac stick out because they're counter to the popular opinion - the majority of responses in this thread are for all for changing voice actors (almost 700 posts now) and the petition is over 3000, so you have to take what those 2 are saying with a huge grain of salt. They're not representative of how most Thief fans feel, even though they'd love to make all of us all feel like we're terrible people.
Gotta love the "this will be my first and only post here" - nice one, drama queen. :laff:
CloudOJD on 17/4/2013 at 19:26
Quote Posted by Kovitlac
I'll expect some sort of petition to get me, or at least my post, removed from the forum, post-haste ;)
Is that how you see us? A bunch of little brats who don't wish to accept other people's opinions?
I was willing to take your post seriously, but that line made it hard for me.
As for the 'artistic intent', there's a difference between things that are actually artistic choices made by developers, and obvious stupidity which they call 'art' so they can hide the fact that what they did is dumb.
The Fallout 3 thing was a mistake, but it wasn't that much big of a deal, since you can just make a save before the final missions and there you go.
Mass Effect 3's ending, on the other hand, is so nonsensical and idiotic it leaves me baffled when people defend it. It gives no conclusion to anything whatsoever. It quite literally doesn't explain who the God Child is (they do in a DLC. Wow.), where he came from and what happens after your decision. It shows your Shepard doing whatever you told him to do, and then nothing. You don't know if your crew or anyone else survived, for that matter. Also, in the original unchanged ending, the mass relays exploded. They explained in the ME2 Arrival DLC that the explosion of a mass relay obliterates a solar system. And when they noticed that plot hole, they changed it in the DLC so the mass relays just get 'dismantled', so to speak.
I'm aware that they fixed all of this in the Extended Cut, but the fact is that they wouldn't have made the EC in the first place if the fans didn't complain about it. And the original ending on its own is just plain stupid. That's not art.
And what Eidos are doing is changing one of the key things that made Thief - Thief. We have every right to complain. They claim to know all about the old games, and claim that they are fans of them as well. But they seem to misunderstand what made the Thief games so likeable. It's not just the Stephen Russell change that's stupid, but that one's the dumbest mistake they've made so far.
R Soul on 17/4/2013 at 20:11
Quote Posted by Kovitlac
I get you're upset Russell wasn't ultimately chosen, but bitching about it this far into development, when it would be far too expensive to go back and change everything, even if Squeenix wanted to, is petty.
We didn't know about it until this far into development. You call it bitching, but I think most comments are reasonable.
Quote:
or at least my post, removed from the forum, post-haste ;)
Opinions aren't censored on
this forum.
Goldmoon Dawn on 17/4/2013 at 21:27
Quote Posted by Brethren
I just see diehard fans here speaking their mind - not sure where all this talk about "vileness" comes from, or how the community is rude
I would like to add that most of the things this new member witnessed are old members *still* arguing about the Deadly debacle in one form or another. Any new members in the Thief Forums are always warmly greeted with high expectations. Most of the new members these days, fortunately, are fanatics of classic gaming elements! :ebil:
Kovitlac on 17/4/2013 at 22:43
Quote Posted by R Soul
We didn't know about it until this far into development. You call it bitching, but I think most comments are reasonable.
I know none of us knew about it, but that doesn't change the fact that complaining about it isn't going to change anything. And I agree - most comments are not unreasonable. It's just the hate, the negativity and the drama that gets thrown around so much is frustrating to see.
Captain Spandex on 17/4/2013 at 23:59
Quote Posted by Queue
Well, the Dark Project sold over half-a-million copies during its initial release, and 3000 signatures is about .6% of the original sales. So, I 'd say somewhere around 250,000 might make them take note.
Sorry, I just don't see them worrying too much about it unless there's substantial opposition toward their decided change in actors.
Keep in mind that Thief 4 is a 'next-gen exclusive', cutting its potential audience by a significant quantity. And that it falls within the 'launch window' (the first year) for the PS4 and 720. Even for a console that had a successful launch - the Xbox 360, for example - launch titles don't sell very well, because they haven't built a large enough userbase in the first year to generate proportionately large software sales. Perfect Dark Zero was a 'successful' 360 launch title. It
barely sold a million copies, even all these years later. For perspective, Sleeping Dogs sold 2 million, (
http://www.gamespot.com/news/square-enix-huge-slump-in-na-sales-hurt-tomb-raider-hitman-sleeping-dogs-6406625) and Square Enix labeled it a 'failure'. And don't forget that (
http://n4g.com/news/1187713/expect-slow-adoption-of-all-three-consoles-next-generation) next-gen consoles are likely to have the slowest adoption rate in history. And that Eidos Montréal have five years of expensive, next-gen development on Thief to pay for.
Looking at the full picture, the prospect of the kind of negative word-of-mouth that this sort of move engenders begins to look
much more risky for Eidos Montréal.
Azaran on 18/4/2013 at 05:15
3200 :)
Vae on 18/4/2013 at 05:34
*** April 17, 2013 - Reached 3200+ signatures ***(+300 for today)...:thumb:
WaffleWarrior on 18/4/2013 at 11:51
Quote Posted by Kovitlac
And now, this. Gamers (and I say this as one) are an extremely opinionated bunch. When it honestly starts to get dangerous, and a little scary, is when they feel they have the right to try and control certain aspects of the development process. Heads up: We are the
consumers. We can chose to buy a product or not. We can make suggestions, of course, but that gets out of hand when people start up pointless petitions, threaten lawsuits, cook up mass boycotts, etc, all because a game isn't being made (or was made) different from how they wanted it to be.
There are mutual grounds between the developers and the players: Who do you think they're making the game for; Eidos employees or for us fans?
If it wasn't for us, I doubt they would've been making it in the first place because we're the ones they're going to try and sell it to. (And from the looks of the trailer I think they'll target the Assassins' Creed fans too)
They're not making it for free, they're going to sell it. And if they don't get enough money from it, then they'll be disappointed. It would mean a lot to a game dev to get feedback, but when they retract into their shell stubbornly like Eidos does with Thief Reboot, then all the players will notice the major changes whether or not the petition is known to everyone. And subsequently the expectations for the sequel of Thief Reboot will be a flop.
The petition and the forums are the only ones who give sound advice to prevent Eidos from crashing a work of art. And if they won't listen to the people who will play the game themselves, then they more or less brought it on themselves.
If they do listen to us then it is a win-win situation; they get more sales and we get the game we wanted.
SubJeff on 18/4/2013 at 13:41
I'm all for this petition but sadly the numbers seem far too low. I thought we'd have 10s of thousands but it seems that hardly anyone cares.
Oh well.
