Queue on 18/4/2013 at 13:44
Quote Posted by WaffleWarrior
There are mutual grounds between the developers and the players: Who do you think they're making the game for; Eidos employees or for us fans?
If it wasn't for us, I doubt they would've been making it in the first place because we're the ones they're going to try and sell it to. (And from the looks of the trailer I think they'll target the Assassins' Creed fans too)
They're not making it for free, they're going to sell it. And if they don't get enough money from it, then they'll be disappointed. It would mean a lot to a game dev to get feedback, but when they retract into their shell stubbornly like Eidos does with Thief Reboot, then all the players will notice the major changes whether or not the petition is known to everyone. And subsequently the expectations for the sequel of Thief Reboot will be a flop.
The petition and the forums are the only ones who give sound advice to prevent Eidos from crashing a work of art. And if they won't listen to the people who will play the game themselves, then they more or less brought it on themselves.
If they do listen to us then it is a win-win situation; they get more sales and we get the game we wanted.
That's utterly ridiculous.
Do FM authors poll the fans first on how to make their FM, or do they utilize the tools available to them and make the FM they want to make?
For that matter, did LGS, after having made The Dark Project, first poll the fans on how to make The Metal Age?
demagogue on 18/4/2013 at 13:55
Funny enough, Uncadonego did used to have fan polls to decide the next FM he'd make. But it's true he isn't representative of most mappers.
Dia on 18/4/2013 at 13:59
Both, Q. Although there's basically no need for FM creators to poll Thief fans because the FM creator is a Thief fan and building a mission with mod tools based directly on that particular game; games which the FM creator already knows we Taffers love. But yeah, I have seen polls created by FM authors (i.e.: uncadonego, a Master FM author if ever there was one, as well as (I think) a couple other established FM authors - was it Ricebug?) wherein they do ask the rest of us what kind of FM we'd like to see next.
New Horizon on 18/4/2013 at 14:11
Quote Posted by Queue
For that matter, did LGS, after having made The Dark Project, first poll the fans on how to make The Metal Age?
No, and I wouldn't expect Eidos Montreal to openly poll us...however...many changes LGS made in The Metal Age were a result of considering fan feedback from the previous game. They said so themselves.
EM made the forums and we were asked to post our thoughts, suggestions and desires of what was important to us in the next Thief game. A lot of time has passed.
From what I've seen and heard so far, they don't appear to have given much consideration to that feedback. While we waited, a lot of the discussion was extremely well though out and hopeful. Stephen Russell came up a lot as a definite addition to the game, and we all know what happened there. :)
A positive relationship between consumers and producers can exist, but communication is a two way street and we spent 3+ years sharing our thoughts into a void.
WaffleWarrior on 18/4/2013 at 14:11
Quote Posted by Queue
That's utterly ridiculous.
Do FM authors poll the fans first on how to make their FM, or do they utilize the tools available to them and make the FM they want to make?
This is exactly what Eidos tried, here's the proof:
[video=youtube;exR_qF0Jsh0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exR_qF0Jsh0[/video]
Around 4:11 and onward you'll hear the guy say that they -
were looking at the forums for what people want-.
It isn't ridiculous, that's just your opinion.
In
MY opinion, what
IS ridiculous, is that they suddenly ignore the fans they used to listen to and are selective in what they want to listen to rather than listen to all that the fans have to come with, and the 3 000+ who signed the petition if they'll already go to forums and read what people want etc.
Why would anybody make and then try and sell something that people don't want?
And when I tell you "I would buy it if it had this and this", and you go "NO", what's the point of expecting money for it?
Might as well give it out for free.
(NOTE: Not promoting piracy by saying this, I'm pointing out that expecting money for it is a waste of nerves)
Dia on 18/4/2013 at 15:11
Okay; he says (almost at the end of WW's linked video) that 'this is something we'll be paying attention to and this is something we'll probably be tweaking until the end of the production'. So I'm going to hold on to hope that maybe they are paying attention. I really, really want to see a gameplay video that shows what happens when Garrett nocks an arrow, picks a lock, climbs a rope(?), blackjacks an NPC, but from the PLAYER'S perspective - I don't want to see a lot of fancy animation and cutscenes, but how it's going to look when the player makes Garrett perform these actions. I want to know just how immersion-breaking EM is going to make this game (immersion is a big thing for me) in regards to 3rd person, cutscenes, takedowns, etc.: they've already said there'll be forced 3rd person perspective, but how much? Hopefully EM'll be coming out with something like that soon because the suspense is making me nuts. We just don't know enought yet.
WaffleWarrior on 18/4/2013 at 16:59
Agreed.
I would love to see, if they don't get Stephen Russell back, this community get together and maybe collect a kind of fund to hire Stephen Russell to do a voice-over as it was suggested sometime earlier in the thread( if I remember correctly).
And I know a person who is good at making textures, so maybe I could ask them to make a new texture for Garrett's skin if enough people would show interest? Then we could put the new skin and the new voice out as a free mod/bundle to download to the game. And maybe make some other changes too to add in the mod if anybody has more wishes. Just a suggestion.
Then again, if it turns out that Eidos makes the game very bad; Egoraptor summed things up pretty well concerning Castlevania 2 and mods for it:
"The minor corrections can't fix an ultimately broken game."
So I guess we'd have to evaluate it first before deciding on anything. Though I hope Eidos does all this work instead lol.
New Horizon on 18/4/2013 at 17:13
Quote Posted by WaffleWarrior
So I guess we'd have to evaluate it first before deciding on anything. Though I hope Eidos does all this work instead lol.
Even before evaluating the game, you would have to know whether it was even technically possible to mod the game. A lot of games these days are locked up tight in some proprietary binary format. It could take some clever coders a very long time to develop the tools to extract the assets and find a way to inject the new assets into the game.
Renzatic on 18/4/2013 at 17:44
Quote Posted by New Horizon
Even before evaluating the game, you would have to know whether it was even technically possible to mod the game. A lot of games these days are locked up tight in some proprietary binary format. It could take some clever coders a very long time to develop the tools to extract the assets and find a way to inject the new assets into the game.
Barring a couple of packages like Speedtree and Houdini, most assets use a standardized set of file types that can be hacked around or overridden fairly easily. At the very least, static models and sound files probably won't be much of a problem to replace.
MoroseTroll on 18/4/2013 at 18:16
All UE(1, 2, 3)-based games are hack-friendly and many of them are mod-friendly, so please don't worry about this :).
