JonesCrusher on 4/6/2019 at 20:43
it was nice while it lasted....but I have only ever played it the once,and never felt the need to go and play it again,unlike all the other FMs...maybe it's time to revisit it,for me.
Meowdori on 10/11/2019 at 16:13
I played T2X briefly in 2017, but for whatever reason i shelved it and only did replay it properly very recently, finishing literally yesterday.
Overall this is probably one of the most elaborate and involved undertakings made by fans of any game or game series, with lots of work poured into it, as impressive today as it was in 2005, and i totally enjoyed it for the most part.
It's definitely far from flawless though, so while the experience is still fresh in my memory i'll just do a quick rundown of what caught my attention in both positive and negative ways.
Starting with the most obvious and immediately noticeable change, compared to the official games, as much as iconic Garrett is, i really loved the idea of having him replaced with Zaya, for at least two reasons - female protagonist is always welcome for a change, and in this particular case it allowed the authors to use more freedom while putting the plot together, since they didn't need to worry about the continuity and integrity of Garrett's story as much, in the context of possible sequels.
The idea was great in its premise, but there's the other side to it, and it's the execution of said idea, which is where the slippery slope of flaws begins. The most annoying one to me was the voice acting for Zaya. She tends to comment on events with a very exaggerated manner, which is apparent especially during briefing cut-scenes where she sometimes dangerously closely approaches the typical soap opera territory, expressing melodramatic emotion in her lines, making it feel at least ill-fitted. I'm not sure whether it's an issue with writing, direction or the actress' lack of experience, but i'd say it's probably mix of these three. This is not to say that she should be the Master Taffer's clone and keep such stoic and snarky, cynical attitude at all times, but there was a point where i stopped for a while and the following crossed my mind:
Quote:
She keeps taffing around, fighting adversaries, knocking them out without a second thought or hesitation, never comments hysterically whenever the player decides to make her kill somebody, yet on the other hand we have these overly corny cutscenes creating a twofold and jarring emotional image of her.
That alone, makes the whole story less believable or immersive.
Aside of this, as my friend consciously noted, there were some gaping plot holes near the very end, when the the story was about to resolve, which i'm going to put into spoiler markings.
Namely, the fact that Malak doesn't even try to kill Zaya, after she refuses to side with him when he unveils his true motives, nor does he even try to close the portal immediately, is inexcusable.With complaining being out of the way for now, the missions themselves, and the actual gameplay were really good and super enjoyable, with such highlights as The Grand Hotel (yay for my favourite indoor-exploration-of-a-hugeass-property theme), Of Ill Repute (very novel and fun setting idea imo, with a plethora of different ways to break inside, many humorous touches which i shan't mention not to spoil anything, very fitting background ambience/music loop and generally unique atmosphere, which i'll dare to say that i found cozy lol), the return of undead-themed missions with really great visuals and feel and last but not least, the famous mission taking place on the train to Sunnyport which pushed the original Thief 2 engine to its limits. If i were to be really picky, my main gripe would be with lavish recycling of original Thief 2 assets in some places (hello The Grand Hotel's exterior, totally not giving me a massive deja vu of The City Bank), but that's a minor issue and i'm going to shut up about it.
One thing that i almost forgot to mention, the very well-made and polished 3D CGI cut-scenes were something i also enjoyed, definitely not a common sight for amateur fan missions, and one of the qualities of T2X that make it stand out (that one disturbing scene though, that was nicely executed).
Oooofff i didn't mean to let this become a full-on review, but whatever i guess, lol
baeuchlein on 11/11/2019 at 01:51
Quote Posted by Meowdori
The most annoying one to me was the voice acting for Zaya. She tends to comment on events with a very exaggerated manner, which is apparent especially during briefing cut-scenes where she sometimes dangerously closely approaches the typical soap opera territory, expressing melodramatic emotion in her lines, making it feel at least ill-fitted. I'm not sure whether it's an issue with writing, direction or the actress' lack of experience, but i'd say it's probably mix of these three. This is not to say that she should be the Master Taffer's clone and keep such stoic and snarky, cynical attitude at all times, but there was a point where i stopped for a while and the following crossed my mind:
Quote:
She keeps taffing around, fighting adversaries, knocking them out without a second thought or hesitation, never comments hysterically whenever the player decides to make her kill somebody, yet on the other hand we have these overly corny cutscenes creating a twofold and jarring emotional image of her.
That alone, makes the whole story less believable or immersive.
Strange. I never saw it that way, although someone else has written something similar somewhere about T2X.
I rather thought Zaya was a young girl, not as emotionally stable as some other (and some older) humans, and her adventures began as an emotional roller coaster ride. First, she was incredibly enthusiastic about re-visiting her cousin again. I always thought that she felt more for him than just the affection towards a family member. What if she had a crush on him, perhaps even loved him?
Then, she is actually reunited with him, talks to him while they go through the city... and then some people crop out of nowhere, kill her cousin and immediately after try to kill her as well. She has to seek refuge in an abandoned, run-down house... and from the talk she may observe whilst looking through one of the house's windows, she can conclude that she probably just has passed from the frying pan directly into the fire.
But then, some strange entity "talks" to her, apparently telepathic, and lets her bypass several deadly traps. She soon learns she has found more than just refuge from the killers, as this old man named Malak is about to help her getting revenge on these murdering people she has now begun to hate.
During her long "training", she may already have come to the conclusion that she will have to break some laws, perhaps even use violence, to get to her revenge. She certainly realizes that in the cut-scene where she asks Malak whether all this is really needed. Does she really have to be ready to do really bad things to avenge Kedar? In this moment, Malak pushes her over the red line, behind which she rams her dagger into the table with a sudden burning fury. Her "bad side" (if you want to call it that), her violent side, has got the upper hand, and she goes over the top: Not only shall the killers pay for Kedar's death, but "
this foul city shall feel it, too!"
Malak has apparently sensed her emotional instability, and now pushes her over the edge, getting the Zaya he wants: The darker, ready-to-do-harm Zaya, who let her hatred fuel her, propelling her towards the revenge she now sees as justice being done.
If she really is that emotionally unstable young girl who just has lost her male love interest, this cut-scene is not so unbelievable for me anymore. And the other times when she sometimes travels along her path of revenge, violence and killing while being on a "mission" (she would certainly not call it that, but let's use Garrett's or the game's words for clearance), she may have no time to think about the moral aspects of her doings, possibly being adrenaline-filled because of the dangers of being spotted and killed. But once she has completed one of her "missions", she would be able to think it through, to face her doubts again, "good Zaya" being on the rise again.
When I was about her age, I was a lot less stable concerning emotions than I am today. I can sometimes relate to her, I think, and at least partially feel what she might have felt. "The folly of youth", perhaps?
Maybe that offers an explanation about why Zaya's personality seems to be so contradicting at times.
Think also about the two Keepers talking in the end, when she leaves the city again on her ship. One of the Keepers appears wanting to stop her and turn her into another "promising acolyte", but the other one votes for letting her go: "She has suffered enough". Maybe he knows (or thinks he knows) how often she went from highest hopes to deepest despair during the last months, and feels pity for her, she having to cope with her overwhelming emotions far too often for a human who is still so young.
Quote Posted by Meowdori
[...] there were some gaping plot holes near the very end, when the the story was about to resolve, which i'm going to put into spoiler markings.
Namely, the fact that Malak doesn't even try to kill Zaya, after she refuses to side with him when he unveils his true motives, nor does he even try to close the portal immediately, is inexcusable.I thought that it was still pretty hard for Zaya to
travel through the area beyond that portal. Maybe Malak thought that his minions would deal with Zaya. Maybe he thought the little girl was so broken after realizing that all her efforts to save her cousin were in vain, maybe even from the beginning - after all, she has dedicated about one year of her life to that, and now she learns that her hope and dream was never to come true.
Or maybe Malak liked Zaya, in a twisted way. Maybe he thought: She could have become another one of my followers, a very talented one - but the foolish girl just wanted to save that poor little cousin of hers, not realizing how devastating a blow she could have delivered to her enemies (and the ones who brought her cousin's life to a sad end), not realizing how sweet her revenge could have been... after all, Malak was (as far as I remember) motivated a lot by revenge. And so, Malak just left her there, not wishing to kill her, who could have been like the daughter he probably never had. Or his most promising ally. Remember that "Our most promising acolyte has left us..." sentence in one of the briefings of "Thief I"? Malak could have felt somewhat similar to Zaya after all the time they worked, apparently, for a common goal.
And perhaps Malak was more concerned about his imminent revenge anyway. Who knows how long he had worked for just this time, when he was about to let his enemies pay for their misdeeds?Well, I think I just qualified to be a psychological aide to Zaya as well as Malak. Maybe I'll open the first mental hospital in Zaya's distant home land, who knows?;)
ValmontPhl on 11/11/2019 at 13:22
We're pushing 15 years now of the same rambling. 'Zaya's voice blah...' and 'because her character evolves thus...'
It's simple: one of the Devs convinced a female to do it. That's it. No production studio or open call auditions. Just Wynne, a gamer like the rest of us.
And compared to the VO's in some other FMs, it's damn good.
Link for the grateful: (
http://www.thief2x.com/credits/)
Quote Posted by Meowdori
The idea was great in its premise, but there's the other side to it, and it's the execution of said idea, which is where the slippery slope of flaws begins. The most annoying one to me was the voice acting for Zaya. She tends to ...
l
Quote Posted by baeuchlein
Strange. I never saw it that way, although someone else has written something similar somewhere about T2X.
I rather thought Zaya was a ...
Ghostly on 11/11/2019 at 13:39
Replayed it not so long ago and I find it immersive at best where the levels feel polished and has a good sense of player directions to them that it doesn't feel needlessly convoluted, voice-over I feel was very good and believable with a good sense of feeling to them, still remember on my first playthrough once I finished the campaign and saw how the end of it paved I simply felt satisfied in a good way, not to mention even though it is all fan made but some parts of the story felt like it both acknowledged and integrated itself to lore of Thief 2 like the servant project, very nicely executed project, takes a bit of maturity in my opinion to really appreciate and see the development team managed to pull it out and in such a good polish to it with their limited resources.
Have seen and heard of so many taking onto T2 fan missions projects just to get cancelled or only parts of it finished in the past may be one major reason why I overwhelmingly feel so positive of this gem. :)
Meowdori on 12/11/2019 at 13:45
Quote Posted by ValmontPhl
We're pushing 15 years now of the same rambling. 'Zaya's voice blah...' and 'because her character evolves thus...'
It's simple: one of the Devs convinced a female to do it. That's it. No production studio or open call auditions. Just Wynne, a gamer like the rest of us
Well, you say it's 15 years of the same rambling, except i wasn't here for these last 15 years to ramble, or read whatever had been said, so i naturally wanted to add my 5 cents to it from my perspective, having just played it.
Also might be worth noting, that's only my honest opinion, no personal offence to anyone involved in the production of the addon was meant (i think i'm saying an obvious thing anyway)
Also while Zaya's acting didn't convince me much, there were some other, briliant dialogues, which i found really well played and fit into the game (the burrick sausage scene comes to mind immediately, also mechanist vs hammerite arguing near the train station)
