Scots Taffer on 13/5/2009 at 01:33
This probably isn't the time or place but I'm going to help a brother out here.
Chade: jtr7 is a passive-aggressive misguided little shitlick who seems to have generated goodwill on his own part through sheer brute force posting* who continually spouts gross generalisations and uninformed opinions while hypocritically doing the same himself on his own side of the fence.
Be glad he has you ignore and then you can start blissfully ignoring his trollbait and move on. You are spot on that he is an elitist when it comes to Thief and he himself endorses this view as an extremist/purist, it's of no small irony to me that he fully admits this hypocrisy as in another thread not too far from here he leads the charge against segregation and elitism with the same ignorant obstinacy.
* Perhaps he paid his $10 donation and had the post rate limiter removed, it certainly feels like in this forum.
oh shit wait let me get in a smiley and say how much i love this community because that neutralizes the everpresent bile in my posting :angel: :joke:
Neb on 13/5/2009 at 01:34
Quote Posted by Dia
P.S. I ABSOLUTELY REFUSE TO RELINQUISH MY BLACKJACK. :nono:
That's ok. You can't get us while we've got an eye on you. :p
Oh no. Cold war.
But yeah, I'm up for no bickering. :)
jtr7 on 13/5/2009 at 01:44
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
This probably isn't the time or place but I'm going to help a brother out here.
Chade: jtr7 is a passive-aggressive misguided little shitlick who seems to have generated goodwill on his own part through sheer brute force posting* who continually spouts gross generalisations and uninformed opinions while hypocritically doing the same himself on his own side of the fence.
Be glad he has you ignore and then you can start blissfully ignoring his trollbait and move on. You are spot on that he is an elitist when it comes to Thief and he himself endorses this view as an extremist/purist, it's of no small irony to me that he fully admits this hypocrisy as in another thread not too far from here he leads the charge against segregation and elitism with the same ignorant obstinacy.
* Perhaps he paid his $10 donation and had the post rate limiter removed, it certainly feels like in this forum.
oh shit wait let me get in a smiley and say how much i love this community because that neutralizes the everpresent bile in my posting :angel: :joke:
Hmmm... Now I know where the disconnect is. Okay then.:erg:
Dia on 13/5/2009 at 01:49
Whoa, Scots; just plain whoa.
Seriously uncalled for, smilies notwithstanding.
Stath MIA on 13/5/2009 at 01:51
I'd say that the big difference between DS and Thief 4 is that this time the devs care what the community thinks. From what I've seen EM legitimately wants to know what the fans like/ don't like. They saw how bad T3 was too and don't want a repeat. So let's definitely give them the benefit of the doubt, for now anyway.:devil:
Scotstaffer- Come on man, don't drag us down that road again, please?
Chade on 13/5/2009 at 02:34
Scots: big thanks for letting me know that I'm not the only person who perceives the situation that way ...
thiefinthedark on 13/5/2009 at 03:18
Hm, my Account is still here, lovely!
At the expense of copy-pasting my responses to Eidos' initial treatment of the Deus Ex franchise, I'll instead be brief.
While it is a wonderful, lovely thing to say "Let them have breathing room and don't shoot them till we see something", that simply does not apply to what the games industry has become in the past 10, hell past FIVE years. We will see Thief, Like Deus Ex, taken and formatted to fit the slavering and slightly lobotomized tastes of the Halo Generation. Perfectly tuned to sell several million copies and make a healthy return, setting the studio up for the next sequel: Thief 5 - Karras Returns.
The industry is about dollars, not creativity. Creativity belongs to the Indy studios and the "Big Names" that can pull investor money left right and center. Things are not like they were in the 90's, originality is most regularly discarded.
Trust me - Thief was the series that got me into this vapid, self-absorbed industry in the first place =D
/Claims exclusive rights to title of chief cynic and bombast.:devil:
greypatch3 on 13/5/2009 at 03:56
Quote Posted by thiefinthedark
Hm, my Account is still here, lovely!
At the expense of copy-pasting my responses to Eidos' initial treatment of the Deus Ex franchise, I'll instead be brief.
While it is a wonderful, lovely thing to say "Let them have breathing room and don't shoot them till we see something", that simply does not apply to what the games industry has become in the past 10, hell past FIVE years. We will see Thief, Like Deus Ex, taken and formatted to fit the slavering and slightly lobotomized tastes of the Halo Generation. Perfectly tuned to sell several million copies and make a healthy return, setting the studio up for the next sequel: Thief 5 - Karras Returns.
The industry is about dollars, not creativity. Creativity belongs to the Indy studios and the "Big Names" that can pull investor money left right and center. Things are not like they were in the 90's, originality is most regularly discarded.
Trust me - Thief was the series that got me into this vapid, self-absorbed industry in the first place =D
/Claims exclusive rights to title of chief cynic and bombast.:devil:
The trouble is that the entertainment industry really is a double-edged sword; on the one hand, being creative is one of the best ways to sell a title, as The Dark Project demonstrated; nobody in the industry was doing anything of the sort. An FPS with the emphasis on AVOIDING combat? You had to be nuts. Yes, System Shock and Ultima Underworld helped pave the way, but Thief was the one that actually did it. And it sold.
But on the other hand, there is something to be said for safety. Batman starting in the 1990s and Spider-Man in the 2000s broke ground and said, "Yes, superhero movies can be good and make money," but now look at how many superhero movies are made each year, and how much they take in. The ones that stray furthest from the formulas (Watchmen) don't do as well as expected (or, like The Spirit, are apparently crap, though it gave me a few chuckles). And look at those of us (myself included) who want them to at least stick to the formula; the formula is something expected and safe. To deviate too much from it takes away what makes it Thief-y in the first place.
Thus paradoxically, we want Thief to be a breath of fresh air in a marketplace overcrowded with knock-offs and imitations. On the other hand, we still want it to remain the Thief we all know and love, and deviating too much would destroy it. Striking a balance between the two is a difficult task, and often times an impossible task.
And, sometimes, it's sad to say, fans don't always know what they want. Take a look at the Highlander: The Source debacle. One of the writers (who was later booted off the project) went to fan boards and asked people what they wanted to see in a new Highlander film. When the film was finally released, the film did so poorly that a planned trilogy was scrapped. It had everything fans wanted to see, and yet no fan wanted anything to do with the final product.
This isn't to say that a little criticism is a bad thing; very constructive criticism, taken properly and handled well, can lead to the betterment of the product. But I think the true test of the fourth game will be the skilled people at the helm, who should not only be deeply invested in the heart of the game, but can easily separate the good from the bad. Anybody who has made an FM or Mod can probably attest to this; surely you went into the work making what you thought was a good level, not what everybody told you would be a good level. Your combination of skill and dedication is what proved it, in the end, to be good or bad. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that sort of work from the project leads at EM; remember, money is important, but nobody at a game company wants to be responsible for making a piece of crap, either. They want a good, marketable game as much as the rest of us do.
Well, I've been rambling. What I'm trying to say (and probably all I should've said in the first place), is "Keep a level of healthy skepticism, but remember, the designers want to make something good, too."
P.S. I should say that Uwe Boll is a massive exception to this whole schpiel. :cheeky:
EDIT: Ah, nuts. Just went back to the beginning of the thread and realized 95% of what I wrote was pretty much what started the thread to begin with...and I know I had read it already! Damn, I know I should write stuff late at night. I just end up repeating myself...or what somebody else already said.
Master Taffer 512 on 13/5/2009 at 03:58
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
This probably isn't the time or place but I'm going to help a brother out here.
Chade: jtr7 is a passive-aggressive misguided little shitlick who seems to have generated goodwill on his own part through sheer brute force posting* who continually spouts gross generalisations and uninformed opinions while hypocritically doing the same himself on his own side of the fence.
Be glad he has you ignore and then you can start blissfully ignoring his trollbait and move on. You are spot on that he is an elitist when it comes to Thief and he himself endorses this view as an extremist/purist, it's of no small irony to me that he fully admits this hypocrisy as in another thread not too far from here he leads the charge against segregation and elitism with the same ignorant obstinacy.
* Perhaps he paid his $10 donation and had the post rate limiter removed, it certainly feels like in this forum.
oh shit wait let me get in a smiley and say how much i love this community because that neutralizes the everpresent bile in my posting :angel: :joke:
Starting to remember why I stopped coming here....
jtr7 on 13/5/2009 at 04:51
I'm really sorry about this. And I've had my eyes opened. I had...NO idea that's how I'm perceived by them. I can't comprehend the possibility that those posts were meant...as statements of fact.(!) I'm trying to wrap my head around this, and the first thing I think of is they are confusing how I am in CommChat (which they also don't get, since they can't see the look on my face or hear the tone of my words) as opposed to here. Here, I can just be myself and not worry too much about being bullied or seeing my friends get bullied.
I hope you can tough it out and keep voicing your opinion regardless of disagreement. Now that I know the rules have changed, I'll do my part to continue to be myself, but let comments from these guys slide on past. I'm not worth their time, so that energy expenditure above alone astounds me. I'll say no more on the matter.
