Scots Taffer on 13/5/2009 at 04:52
I don't speak for anybody but myself, bub, so please don't infer anyone's (or worse, an entire forum's) opinions from what I said above. You dug your own grave on this one and supporting evidence stands at the ready. PM me if you want further clarification on what I'm talking about, no need to embarrass you in front of your friends.
I must admit your reaction surprises me, that well of self-pity and hypocrisy you're drawing from seems to go pretty deep seeing as you're the one in this very thread publicly announcing you're ignoring someone and asking someone else to leave the forums (obvious acts of petty passive-aggressive bullying) and still have the gall to talk about you not worry about being bullied.
This isn't High School, if you make your bed you sleep in it. If you state a position you better damn well be able to defend it, so I guess in that sense it is like High School, debate class.
I'm done with this though, I don't want to bring ill-repute on CommChat as a result of my actions here but I cannot stand by while you idly pepper the forums with your brand of arrogant ignorance. There is no mystical hierarchy, there is no in-club or forum elites, there are simply people and you either interact with those people successfully or you don't.
Apologies to all and sundry for disrupting the thread. Now that shit is bedded down, let the rest of this be about Thief.
I'm sure somewhere down the line jtr and I can agree on that much, that's if he hasn't got me on ignore already.
Master Taffer 512 on 13/5/2009 at 06:33
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
This isn't High School...
Then stop acting like it is. If the guy pisses you off then ignore him. Why waste your energy on something that's beneath you? Quit throwing a pissy fit and grow up.
Iceblade on 13/5/2009 at 07:08
I don't see some of the problems that plagued T3 returning with the advancement in consoles over the last 5 years. Larger maps shouldn't be quite as difficult to have and loading zones (if they will even exist) should be much fewer and farther apart. And I would shocked if they didn't include rope arrows or something similar. There is almost a unanimous consensus for its inclusion by the whole community.
All of the details aside, as long as they keep the general feel of Thief and the basic setting (give or take 50 years) and have a good story that makes sense with the prior games...I'll be happy. Minor details like the main character (yes I said it, a number of fan missions have used different protagonists and have turned out to be pretty good and very enjoyable), faction details (we only know so much about each and thus any new details to the canon would be awesome), and even enemies (remember, people had issues with the robots in T2 yet most of the community agrees that it beats T3.
So no matter what transpires over the course of T4's development, I will be paying rapt attention to every juicy tidbit that is released.
TheCapedPillager on 13/5/2009 at 18:08
Quote Posted by Iceblade
And I would shocked if they didn't include rope arrows or something similar.
Hmm, a thought just occurred to me. A grappling hook wouldn't have really been technically possible (at least not in any realistic way) in the originals, but maybe this could be done now. It's no replacement for rope arrows, more complimentary (you could use it to clamber up a wall without needing a wooden ledge or surface).
Mickyw33 on 13/5/2009 at 19:39
I'm actually more than willing to keep my pitch fork and torch in my closet for now as I am very optimistic that EM has a great advantage of making a new Thief game today, as opposed to five years ago in 2003.
(The following is not based on facts, merely my beliefs and observations. Take it as you will.)
When TDS was being made, that was a rough time for developers because the gap between PC and console capabilities was pretty huge. At the same time though you had this growing console market that started to make so much money while PC sales began to slump, it was hard to ignore.
Games started becoming these gigantic "Hollywood like" projects involving multiple companies throwing a lot of money around. So much so that it became an issue on making that money back.
Multiplatforming was where the big money was at, or so many believed. The pie in the sky everyone was aiming for. I think thats when you really started to see a lot of ports and cross platform releases that were really terrible. The quality of games suffered for awhile I think until developers got a handle on the process to get us where we are today.
Which is to say we have home consoles that are almost on par with PCs graphically. Multiplatform games are almost a standard now, and the discrepancy of quality between the different systems with the same game, is almost unnoticeable.
Sure there are still differences, always will be, but I don't think they are anywhere near as crippling as they were just 5 years ago when we saw Thief: Deadly Shadows become the worst case example of what can happen when cross platform development goes wrong... among other things.
(deep breath)
tl;dr - EM should be in a far better place than ISA ever was, so I'm hopeful we get to finally see a new Thief game that lives up to what Thief has become to all of us. Cheers. :cool:
Myagi on 13/5/2009 at 21:37
Quote Posted by Stath MIA
I'd say that the big difference between DS and Thief 4 is that this time the devs care what the community thinks. From what I've seen EM legitimately wants to know what the fans like/ don't like.
IMHO that's highly delusional, that applies to any (larger) game production and not just specifically to T4. It's to their advantage keep an illusion that communities have any "say" so they'll ensure that they're listening, and they might on occasion even throw a tiny bone to feed the illusion.
For example let's say they have loot glint and there was a huge outcry, they might add an on/off setting for it and a bunch of people cheer and feel validated, in the grand scheme of things a small irrelevant detail. OTOH let's say they decided to make a third person only game and/or a more actiony less slow paced one, no amount of community outcry will have any impact whatsoever on such a fundamental choice. Unfortunately the latter category of choices is the important one, that decides whether the game will even be in the same ballpark as its predecssors, so it even would be worth thinking about the loot glints and arrow trails type of details.
</negative nancy>
jtr7 on 13/5/2009 at 22:36
An odd waste of time, don't you think, also? To read as much of our posts as they have, and to recruit members as Point of Contacts seems an unnecessary expenditure, but I do see your point, as well. Just comparing what I know to the unknown.
Myagi on 13/5/2009 at 22:50
Quote Posted by jtr7
An odd waste of time, don't you think, also? To read as much of our posts as they have, and to recruit members as Point of Contacts seems an unnecessary expenditure, but I do see your point, as well. Just comparing what I know to the unknown.
I don't think it's unecessary, if you see it from a marketing perspective. Having/creating a really excited hardcore group of people that market* your game freely for years is likely worth paying an employee for. And having an employee just for that makes them feel even more special which amplifies the whole effect.
And I don't mean to imply that that employee goes into the job with the mindset/belief that they don't give a damn, but the end result remains IMHO, that it's an illusion to think "we can affect the shape of the product", at best we get to pick the color of some tiny ornament on it. :)
* talk about it to all their friends etc., maintaining an ongoing buzz
Reliance on 13/5/2009 at 22:56
Quote Posted by Myagi
I don't think it's unecessary, if you see it from a marketing perspective. Having/creating a really excited hardcore group of people that market* your game freely for years is likely worth paying an employee for. And having an employee just for that makes them feel even more special which amplifies the whole effect.
And I don't mean to imply that that employee goes into the job with the mindset/belief that they don't give a damn, but the end result remains IMHO, that it's an illusion to think "we can affect the shape of the product", at best we get to pick the color of some tiny ornament on it. :)
* talk about it to all their friends etc., maintaining an ongoing buzz
Capitalism is a beautiful thing in that it leads to many, many surprises. We can't say "we don't have any effect" for sure until we try; mountains are reduced to ashes by rain, afterall. The best thing to do is to remain optimistic and, must importantly, as a helpful community willing to spend time to logically and willingly assist in the rebirth of a classic. The community must remain an asset and not a hindrance; if the line is crossed, or if the community starts to waste the time of the developers, the doors will be closed. Put bickering aside and work together to give our opinions and hopes and I believe we will see good things to come.
Stath MIA on 13/5/2009 at 23:01
Quote Posted by Myagi
IMHO that's highly delusional, that applies to any (larger) game production and not just specifically to T4. It's to their advantage keep an illusion that communities have any "say" so they'll ensure that they're listening, and they might on occasion even throw a tiny bone to feed the illusion.
You may be right, I'm just commenting on what
I perceive as an openness toward what we think, I may very well be wrong but I believe that they learned from Ion Storm's mistake of completely ignoring the general fan consensuses about how a Thief game should be made. I might be being overly optimistic, but I think that we shouldn't start doubting their sincerity until they give us a reason to.
