Eigenface on 25/11/2010 at 01:33
I hear you, but trust me, they give you way too much oil for the lantern and way, way too many tinder boxes. My advice to myself as a new player would have been you can use both a lot more than you really need to, or you'll end up completing the game with huge unused stockpiles. That being the case, it's kind of pointless having limited quantities in the first place, but at least running out never becomes a problem. I'm inclined to think the main purpose of oil flasks and tinder boxes is to motivate you to search all the dark nooks and crannies of the castle to find them. Or to make you feel like there's the potential to run out of resources and become lost in the dark.
mr nobuddy on 25/11/2010 at 23:25
Quote Posted by Eigenface
I hear you, but trust me, they give you way too much oil for the lantern and way, way too many tinder boxes. My advice to myself as a new player would have been you can use both a lot more than you really need to, or you'll end up completing the game with huge unused stockpiles. That being the case, it's kind of pointless having limited quantities in the first place, but at least running out never becomes a problem. I'm inclined to think the main purpose of oil flasks and tinder boxes is to motivate you to search all the dark nooks and crannies of the castle to find them. Or to make you
feel like there's the potential to run out of resources and become lost in the dark.
Agreed on all counts. Just as anecdotal evidence: I recently played through the game for the second time (playing to get the audio commentaries) and, even though the gamma was dark, I still ended the game with +40 tinderboxes. Mind you, since I already know somewhat where there are monsters and/or objects, I adapted accordingly. That, and quickly pull the lantern out to get a general look around, stopping the teethcrunching.
And yes, the archive tunnels and the prison are still extremely scary.
Eigenface on 26/11/2010 at 01:29
Ha, I hadn't even realized the subtle "insanity sound" was my own grinding teeth. You're right, that's exactly what it is. My favorite area is the choir - stalked by monsters through a forest of pillars, with those creepy torture rooms.
If you follow the shortest path to your goals (as I did the second play through), you actually miss significant portions of the maps, such as the mysterious altar in the chancel - by the time I got there, the bridge had already collapsed.
I also noticed the same thing Gabucino did on my second play through, a monster spawns when you enter a certain room, follows a patrol route, and if he doesn't find you (or if he does and then he loses you), he finishes the patrol route and then disappears. I much prefer evading fully-autonomous AIs, rather than just triggering a series of scripted encounters.
Eigenface on 26/11/2010 at 02:24
The AI behavior, abundance of lamp oil and tinder boxes, and general ease (I only died twice on my first play through) makes me think this game is targeted at stealth-horror newbies, which makes sense, given the lack of games in that genre. Maybe it's just that I was more of a newbie before, but Penumbra seemed less forgiving and more viscerally scary. Penumbra also started to get monotonous later in the game, with its indie budget/content spread a little too thin. Amnesia was more polished and consistently interesting, with its puzzles, disturbing plot, and greater variety of environments and enemies.
Although in my mind, a lot of games are polished and consistent (most mainstream games), and the more exceptional, important thing is the fact Penumbra was scarier - so few games have true horror (not just jump scares.) And come on, who's bright idea was it to name Amnesia after the biggest cliche in adventure game history? I guess newbies don't know the difference. I hope the next Frictional games returns to its "hardcore" roots.
I have a theory about one reason Penumbra was scarier. You can fight the enemies (albeit not very effectively), and the enemies really come after you.
There's an opposing theory in horror game circles which says you're more scared when you're completely helpless (can't fight the enemies, can't even remain sane, etc.) I think there's some truth to this, but I also think there's an effect that comes into play to counter this feeling of helplessness.
The effect comes from the player's expectations of the game: if you're helpless, you don't expect the enemies to really come after you. You know the game was designed to be possible, probably not even that hard, so if you can't defend yourself, you must not need to.
So making the player more helpless only makes the game scarier to a point; after that point, the player starts second-guessing whether or not the game has any teeth. Penumbra's "teeth" may even have been an accident due to the inexperience of the developers - did they really mean for the game so be so hard?
So my theory is you have to have just enough ability to defend yourself to make the danger credible. The enemies have to come after you as if they don't know/don't care whether or not you can defend yourself (and as a result, in order for the game to be fair, you have to be able to defend yourself.) The game can't coddle you and make sure you never have to fight for your life, or the player will know.
TheGrimSmile on 26/11/2010 at 05:50
As soon as I saw the game, Thief was the first thing to cross my mind.
I've played it a little but, but I usually sit back and watch as my sister does the freaky stuff. The game is incredibly terrifying, and shows that you don't need the most amazing graphics and a huge budget to make a scary game.
The slowness does get a bit annoying during downtime, though, and the immersion is somewhat broken by the having to wait every time I have to enter the smallest shadow and the constant dabble about in darkness, run to light, wait a few seconds, dabble in darkness, etc. gets tedious during puzzles.
I also felt that the game underestimated my ability to understand what the game was about. I would have gotten into it right away if it didn't tell me outright to immerse myself in the game and not to fight monsters. I find that these things are better learned.
I find it odd that you died so many times. I've only died once, in the demo.
kevycanavan on 9/5/2011 at 19:57
Having just completed the game. It's well worth your money. The fact that it's thief like in some ways is only a bonus. This is a great game that stands on it's own.
It does take a little while to get into (I found) but by the end of it you'll feel like you had a real experience.
Best of all it's by the little guy.
these guys will be one to watch. mark my words.
I just wish these guys were in charge of thief 4
Renault on 9/5/2011 at 20:29
Quote Posted by kevycanavan
these guys will be one to watch. mark my words.
I just wish these guys were in charge of thief 4
Well, I don't think Frictional is going to sneak up on anyone, they're pretty well known for their Penumbra series. And speaking of sneaking, I think they might have a bit of work to do on the stealth side of things before taking on a project like Thief.
But yes, I'm personally a big fan of these guys, and it'll be interesting to see what type of games they put out over the next couple of years. They really know how to create a atmospheric and frightening experience.
Koki on 10/5/2011 at 05:35
Speaking of games taffers might like, I recently found an (
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-interview-metro-2033) old engine interview with Oleg Shishkovstov and was surprised he specifically named Thief as an inspiration for stealth in Metro 2033(page 3 for those of you who don't care about merging sub-HD framebuffers).
Can't say Metro is Thief-y in general, but it has its moments.
Digital Nightfall on 10/5/2011 at 07:16
I was a huge proponent of Amnesia... before I actually played it. I bought it on day one but have found it extremely difficult to actually enjoy. According to Steam I've only spent two hours playing it (though I suspect this is an error, it can't have been that brief, but maybe...)
I'm wanting to give it one last try before unleashing a very critical rant upon it, but I don't foresee an additional hour of gameplay really changing my mind. If a person isn't sold on the atmosphere and general style of the presentation, I don't imaging the specific gameplay on "level 3" will make much difference.
