A little bit of Haunted Cathedral Prototypical (UDK version has a video!) - by Digital Nightfall
Digital Nightfall on 21/1/2009 at 05:41
There's two things going on here. On the one hand I am trying to learn how to use a "modern" engine and on the other gain more confidence in 3dsmax, which thus far I've only really used for minor tweaks and texturing. On the other I am doing a bit of a study on Hammerite architecture, taking THC as the paragon and extrapolating from there what it could potentially be with looser design constraints. I am of the opinion that Hammerite design should not directly mimic Christian design, but should rather find its own identity. I intentionally broke some rules of what is expected for gothic cathedral design while trying to stay as true as possible to the spirit of THC's design, using the original textures more than the actual brushwork for inspiration.
Inline Image:
http://www.digital-nightfall.com/THC_0.jpgInline Image:
http://www.digital-nightfall.com/THC_1.jpgThough mine seems to look much bigger, they're actually very similar in size (note the doorway) across the base. Mine is a bit taller, though.
The goal here isn't to create anything playable... it's to learn some new tools while exploring some architectural ideas. Of course everything I make could be used by anyone if they really want it. I'm also not going to be doing any texturing... because I want this to be 100% from-scratch my work, and I don't want to split myself three ways. I'm concentrating on the shapes and forms and spaces, not surface details.
The goal is to create the whole church, and maybe some of the other areas as well, over the next few days.
all on 21/1/2009 at 06:29
That kind of reminds me of Gaudi's Sagrada Familia... :thumb:
jtr7 on 21/1/2009 at 06:32
Nice! It looks like it has real weight to it--especially the archway over the door--it just looks heavy. And the rose window and hammers seem deceivingly mild compared to the Hammerites reputation, and even more so in relation to the idea of horrors within. :D
Digital Nightfall on 21/1/2009 at 06:37
The rose window is a travesty of my horrible inexperience with MAX, is what it is. :D
"Heavy" is what I am going for, in contrast to gothic which is supposed to convey lightness.
clearing on 21/1/2009 at 07:56
Good idea :thumb:
Beleg Cúthalion on 21/1/2009 at 08:05
It surely looks like some demonized Steampunk thing with the deepened relief elements. The basic principle of Christian and Hammerite churches would about be the same, wouldn't it? I mean to honour god and maybe symbolize a part of heaven on earth is something that Hammerites will agree on. Do you have any other ideas how to transform their believe into architecture? Are Hammerite churches built on the east-west axis?
Digital Nightfall on 21/1/2009 at 10:43
From the looks of my comment in the thread clearing posted, I was having a bad day that day. :sweat:
Beleg, re: demonized steampunk... a good or bad thing?
One big difference I see in H. vs. C. is the lack of Roman influence in the former. The Roman basilica (a government building) served as the prototype in the case of the latter. I wonder how the church would have evolved into an era resembling The City without that as a starting point?
Extrapolating from THC is just a brainstorming exercise, really. For a purely Hammerite construction style, the real work would begin in a sketchbook.
Jarvis on 21/1/2009 at 14:19
I've never known the Hammers to be overly extravagant. They do pile on the aesthetic architecture what with all the stained glass windows and hammer idols and statues everywhere, but their architectural "art" is usually commemorative in some way or symbolic. Outside of that, they have always struck me as the sort to appreciate functional beauty over pure aesthetic. The portions of the building that have seemingly frivolous designs on them are functionally identical to a non-decorative basic stone wall. Every time they deviate purely for decoration it's always a hammer or a statue or something of that nature.
So that said, I'll get to your model. I like it, and I really appreciate what you're doing. I agree that the Hammers have their own identity. In your design you have gone away from needless and frivolous texture design to replace it with something Hammer related. Indeed, you replaced two crosses with hammers. I'd say your successful so far.
The only part of it that doesn't feel like Hammer architecture is the entrance way. It has romantic beauty, like the sort of thing you would expect on a place containing high art. Hammerite architecture/scripture/daily life all say to me that they are lost in the idea the things have simple function and thus are holy, and everything extra is a distraction and are to be avoided in the righteous Hammer lifestyle.
This last bit is purely my opinion and feeling though. To stick to such a philosophy does indeed limit the creative scope of anyone trying to expand the Hammer identity like you are, and that's not at all what I intend to do. Keep up the good work, and I hope you keep putting up screen shots as you go.
demagogue on 21/1/2009 at 15:41
It's fun to think through it, anyway...
Gothic architecture was pointing ("yearning") heavenwards, towards God, so it's immanently ... not sure the right term, reaching towards an ideal completion. (The way Shopenhauer talks about gravity & load-bearing in architecture like occult forces.) Medieval metaphysics was pretty occult, so there was an idea of spirits and God existing like *in* the air (Christ is really in the Eucharist, and in the space of the niches; demons were really being pushed back by the air around gargoyles). At the same time, God's still a "Creator", but the world was created out of his mind. So the architecture terrifically plays with that paradox of agency both "behind" and "in" the air and walls at the same time.
Ok, so the Builder OTOH carries a hammer; there's much more the idea that he created the world by the omnipotent sweat of his brow. God: omniscience::Builder: omnipotence. Also, the "occult factor" is much different ... agency/magic isn't "behind" reality or "in" it, it's right there, very concrete. You cast a spell and firey balls of lightening really shoot out your ass. It's not so much in/behind the air, which is where I thought you were going with what you were saying above. Like, if you wanted the spiritual power of the Builder to hold up a wall, you'd just literally cast a particle beam. More important for us Hammers is that the Builder gave instruction on how to build a good, solid house, so following his directions is the more devout thing to do.
They probably originally came from the precursor era. It's like how masons canonized arch'l ideas from its founding Medieval period; Hammers canonize ideas from the precursor era ... not precursor architecture I'd think, but if you were looking at precursor architecture, what thinking would make you so disgusted specifically with its features that you'd propagate a "Builder" ideology making construction the highest virtue that overturned it; and what features would it have that send that message in a visible way to your neighbors (like, Precursor is prone to disasters like earthquakes and lava, trapazoidal, colorful, very horizontal lines, buildings have eaves like hats ... I'm viscerally disgusted with that, I make it earthquake proof, vertical or swept lines like you did, or something like that...). That's your paradigm... and straying from it is literally a form of heresy. Also keep in mind the Builder may have wrote architectural ideas in scripture form, as instructions without much wiggle room, and what little wiggle room there is is hemmed in by risk of damnation.) ... Think about elaborating architecture ideas that are quintessentially stabilizing or anti-earthquake. The Builder's ideology is creating a structure/way of life that withstands the turbulence of life. They probably don't like things that invite instability (and too progressive thinking) like domes (which were hot air balloons of God's power to the Byzantines)... Things that also give significance to occult "hot air" lifting power. Even be careful with arches, but love pillars and corners. In medieval architecture, religious significance was given to the space between pillars, made into stainglass windows ... In Hammer architecture significance might be instead on the pillars themselves, that's the positive space that gets the stainglass analog treatment, and it's the in-between spaces that are diminished background space.
BTW, you'd have to think about context; the cathedral is from an older Hammer-order than the contemporary one, which is much more aesthetic (counter-reformation flavored) if you look at what they wear & what they say. Not centuries, but a few generations... Haunts, at least before their fall, are more the paradigm; their garb is more elaborate and ambitious, even their crazy-talk if you think it would be an anti-analog to the Hammer ideology of the time.
The 'weighty' look has some pedigree. I did sometimes get the idea that the Builder lived underground ... We have a Hammer complex in mountain tunnels. So if Hammer architecture were "yearning" towards something, it would be down, or think of the dominant "hidden force", like the pushed up stratum of a mountain, is if the Builder himself were down there Atlas-like pushing it up. Cragscleft also reminds me that smelting is a religious act ... like I recently appreciated it is in Japan; there's a holy smelting site in the South. I bet that's reflected in its sacred architecture if you look; one of the most famous Buddah's is cast-iron and there's a strange ritualistic sort of "room" inside ... think of big cast-iron hammers maybe. I remember wrought iron has holy significance in Judaism, too, so you get some holy "fencing" and "gating" going on in and around synagogues, another idea that might have some parallels.
The solidness also makes you think of load-bearing by brute force of strong square pillars (and that texture gives that idea, too). If I think of a "Builder", the other image I think your ideas make me think of would be pretty domestic, since the quintessential "building" is a home, very square, four walls ... maybe elaborated into a + shape looking down.
Anyway, I'm going through ideas faster than I can think them out... So that's just a few ideas to chew on, I guess.
