A Question about the OM "Eavesdropping".

Namdrol on 17/10/2009 at 06:52

Which is why I consider expert to be the canon version.

jtr7 on 17/10/2009 at 06:55

Yep. It's a veiled attempt at keeping the player on the story track. Although, the player's action can get a character to off themselves.:tsktsk::cheeky:

Stath MIA on 17/10/2009 at 23:55

Quote Posted by jtr7

There are many examples where playing out-of-character and killing story characters fractures the flow.

True, it certainly does. But, it is still possible, however barbaric, for a player to do just that. I honestly cannot think of an example where the same character was able to be killed twice (outside of FMs, anyway).

Jah on 19/10/2009 at 11:09

Personally, I doubt the developers ever had time to analyze the Thief universe anywhere near as thoroughly as we have, so I'm guessing that apart from really plot-critical characters such as Constantine, Viktoria, Karras or Truart, they didn't worry too much about the fate of every minor character. The games can already be finished in many unconventional or "un-canonical" ways (if the player, for example, slaughtered every single Hammerite they could find in T1, it wouldn't make much sense for them to become Garrett's "allies" in TDS just because he killed a few rust mites for them), and it would be very difficult to come up with a story that would fit every possible outcome perfectly.

Oh, and regarding Lord Bafford: If "Bafford" is the guy's last name (and I assume it is - "Lord Gervaisius'" full name is Bram Gervaisius), do we even know that the Lord Bafford who signed the guest book at the Wieldstrom Museum in TDS is the same Lord Bafford from T1, and not his son? ;)

jtr7 on 20/10/2009 at 00:11

Heh. They didn't have to analyze it...they made it, and cut more out than they put in!:laff:

Anyhoo... I understand your point on Bafford. We can't say with all certainty if there is only one male with the surname, so we have to get a sense of it from the bigger picture for any person, place, thing. For illustrative purposes, the implication is there's only one Lord Bafford. And the fact that whether or not it's his first or last name is another hint. So we look at everything the devs gave us pertaining a personage, and we often find there is more than we expected would be there. This is just most, but not all, the texts (no Ginny, Dominic, Ramirez, or Grimworth & de Perrin. No Cedric or Cook. No references to Cyric or Bohn, or Baffy's sometime desire to leave the City to live in Cyric. No Angelwatch Guest List.), no conversations, mutters, and no including the "Lord B." references:

Quote:

OQgravebafford: "In memory of Lady Olivia Bafford
Sister to Lord Bafford
Beloved of Many"

An item line from his ledgers:

Quote:

"(153) Girls' shopping trip: Sunnyfair"

Donating to the City:

Quote:

SMbellplaque: "The Stonemarket Bell
Bringing happiness to the lives of the common people by marking each hour of the work day with the tolling of a golden bell.

- Lord Bafford

This brass and gold leaf bell was a generous gift of the Bafford Family."

All are names from previous games:

Quote:

MUSguests: "Tuesday
We thought that refreshments would be served. Otherwise, the collection is adequate. -Lord and Lady Van Vernon
Interesting. Might any of the objects be available for sale? -Lady Valerius
A very fine time. Very fine. - Lord Bafford

Wednesday
I think that the space would avail itself nicely to a party of some sort. I should like to know if the museum is available for private evening events. -Lady Rumford
Muriel, you should call on me, I have some pieces that might be more safely held here at the museum. I find your safeguards fascinating, and indeed, they do seem utterly thief-proof. Regards -Lord Gervasius

Friday
We thought there would be more paintings. We like paintings. -Lord and Lady Randall
Ironwork, really? It looked more valuable than that to me. -Countess Von Crete"

There's a book, loot, titled "The Bafford Chronicles", and...:

Quote:

KCbafford: "Keeper Emory, I spied an initiate reading the Bafford Chronicles in the Dining Hall this eve. Such travesties of the written word may have their place in a nobleman's store, but are inappropriate here. The monetary value of this book matters not to a scholar. See to it that the book is removed from the hall and destroyed."

Quote:

MUSjade: "Antique Jade and Alabaster Plates, Goblets, and Vases From the Early Period. A donation of the Bafford Family."

Lord Bafford really appreciates the finer things. (Pre-imperial...hmmm...)

Quote:

MUScrown: "The Crown This exquisite example of the pre-imperial style of goldworking was purchased by the Museum with funds donated by the Bafford and Rutherford Families. The artisan is unknown, but from the detail, one cannot help but note the influences of the greats."

Sam Fogerty, Goldsmith, scraping for funds to pay off Jimmy the Knife, in one of two letters he sent out:

Quote:

AULlettertobafford: "Lord Bafford-
Greetings to you. I hope your gout is coming along nicely. Anyway, I seem to have run into a bit of financial trouble. And, since we have such a good business relationship, a friendship really, I feel I can come to you for help. I think two thousand ought to do it. Hopefully,
Samuel Fogerty"

Quote:

M13B23: "Bram's Personal Collector's Journal vol. 17
Just came back from a nice long trip in the northern territories. Ah, what wonderful hunting they have up north! Bafford always organizes the most delightful hunting excursions. We tromped around in the rain on horseback for a good three days and Julian caught a nasty cold. Still, it was tremendous fun.
It was a pity I didn't catch anything. Baffy assured me it would be good hunting, but it was nothing like the time we went off west. No trophy heads to show this time. I'll add more to my collection soon though. I hope to do some hunting while I'm off in the western countryside."

Quote:

M13B23: "Bram's Personal Collector's Journal vol. 19
--Bought a new painting by the Throvian artist Lizotte. There was the most glorious auction at Ramirez's mansion.
Still can't believe the price I got for it.
--Acquired unusual statue of a sea nymph from merchant returning from Lesser Hrabota
--Still trying to find that damn painting by Durant, can't believe that Bafford tried to swindle me with a fake!"

Quote:

M13B15: "Duma,
We need a new gardener before I get back. The terrariums must be in tip top shape. Carina loves plants, and I've been talking up the terrariums. If they don't look their best, I'm sunk with her. Duma, you must see this girl to believe her! Do your best. If Hobart isn't already overworked, get her to coordinate with the new gardener and get a crew planting new trees outside. Draft servants or guards or whomever to do the work. Get the trees from wherever you can on short notice. Hell, dig them up from Bafford's if you need a source. Old Baffy will understand, he still owes me for the time he swindled me on that painting. You know, the one he swore was an original Durant. He knows I'm still annoyed about
that even if it was a prank.
--Bram G

ps. Make sure to up the number of flower arrangements around the manor. It can be a drab place sometimes, and we should do anything we can to spruce it up for her first visit."

UNUSED...

Quote:

M12B13: "Duma,
Everything is going exceedingly well. I just met the most lovely, young filly at the Summer Solstice Soiree. Bafford introduced me to her and I'm quite impressed. Her father will take some getting around but the girl is ravishing and has a voice like a nightingale. Lady Veloden, though she says I may call her by her given name of Carina, was warbling wonderfully. I haven't even thought much of my art collection the last week I've been out here. More later, but make sure to clean up my rooms; it looks like I will be entertaining both publicly and privately during the reception.
--Lord Gervaisius"

All major characters have backstory, and just about all prominent and displayed persons, objects, signs and symbols, do too.

Stath MIA on 20/10/2009 at 01:57

An impressive collection of Bafford quotes. :thumb: