Caradavin on 11/12/2013 at 10:17
Hi, I've been reading everything I can about reskinning AI and I saw that you can do it multiple ways. Now, usually with paintings I do the whole bin editing thing. I figured it would just be easier to use Renderer-Mesh Textures since the skins are from the same model. But, I keep seeing people saying that it's not advisable to do it. Why not? It works, so why is it a bad idea? I just want to know if I'm at risk by doing it that way or not. I'm not trying to be lazy since hex editing is a breeze, but I was reasoning that maybe it would be less a load on dromed if my custom ai are just mesh texture replacements and then I'd have more room for custom objects.
R Soul on 11/12/2013 at 12:15
I've never had any issues with either method. If you share it with other people, and you've used MeshTextures, it's nice to let them know the name of the original texture so they don't have to hunt for it, but that's the only thing.
Yandros on 11/12/2013 at 13:03
I did encounter a crash in OldDark using Mesh Textures while making What Lies Below, but I've no idea if it would still happen in NewDark. It only happened through Thief2.exe, and not in Dromed, which made it hard to diagnose. I believe the issue was I was using an instance of an archetype that already had Mesh Textures on it, like the library apparition, and then had the property also on the concrete AI with (of course) different values. When I remade him using a different archetype as the base, it went away.
That's all an anomaly though, I suspect. Most of the old concerns around doing this were probably focused on how you couldn't use a 256-colour texture which wasn't also used somewhere else, or else Dark didn't know its palette and forced the default palette on it, giving it psychedelic colours. That's no longer a problem, assuming you use an unpalettized filetype (PNG, TGA, JPG) for the skin.
Caradavin on 14/12/2013 at 01:51
I understand putting it in the txt16 folder for objects and meshes will be ok as long as it's targa, pcx, or (jpg? is that right?), then there is no need to palletize it. Does that also mean I don't need to worry about doing the hot pink for color 1 and repaint it unless I edit the image? My other question is how does this work for texture families? I can't put a txt16 in the texture families, right? So, that has to be palletized no matter what, right? Please help me understand this. Also, which is the best format for texture families? Pcx?
LarryG on 14/12/2013 at 02:44
No. Wrong. Read the Modder's Notes in the 1.21 doc folder. It will save you from asking questions which are answered there. To wit:
JPG textures are NOT supported. PCX 8-bit and GIF textures still need their palettes.
Quote:
New image formats: PNG, DDS, PCX 32-bit, BMP 24/32-bit, BMP RLE, TGA RLE
Quote:
Image Type Priorities
---------------------
Aside from the new image formats, the priority (which type can override another) has been slightly adjusted.
The priority order is as follows, where the first has the highest override priority:
.DDS
.PNG
.TGA
.BMP
.PCX
.GIF
.CEL
Another change, to make texture overrides work seamlessly with objects and meshes, is that the image type specified
in the object/mesh files is disregarded. For example if object ARROW.BIN uses a texture named ARROW.GIF, the game
will search for any image named ARROW, starting with ARROW.DDS, then ARROW.PNG etc. until it finds an existing
file. Consequently it's a bad idea to create another object (usually for an FM), that uses a different image with
the same name but different image type. For example if you create a new object that uses an image called ARROW.PNG,
then the original arrow object will use that image too instead of ARROW.GIF.
Note that you should NEVER have two image files with the same name but different image types in the same family
directory. That will cause a lot of headache. For example you should never have
C:\Thief2\Res\fam\wood\wdoor1.pcx
C:\Thief2\Res\fam\wood\wdoor1.png
It's however ok to override a fam texture with a different image format in another mod/FM (or resname_base) path,
like for example
C:\Thief2\Res\fam\wood\wdoor1.pcx
C:\Thief2\mods\texpack1\fam\wood\wdoor1.png
Textures dimensions must be a power of 2 (2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, ...) with a max texture dimension of 4096 (used to be 1024)
Quote:
Texture size limitations have NOT changed, they have to be power-of-two (POT) sized, i.e. 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32,
64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096.
Quote:
Max texture dimension: 4096 (from 1024)
Now let's talk about OBJ/TXT16 and MESH/TXT16. You may use any of the formats and mix them in the folder. Just don't have multiple ones with the same name but different types.
For brushwork textures (Fam directory based):
Quote:
Family palettes are still used for indexed (/palette based) family textures. Only true color image formats (16-/
24-/32-bit) can ignore family palettes.
DON'T mix palette-based formats (GIF and PCX) in the same family with non-palette-based formats (DDS, TGA, PNG, etc.)
Quote:
Max texture families: 32 (from 16)
Max family textures: 1024-ish (from 256-ish)
I just saw another post by you which implies you are using the T3 editor. If so, you are posting in the wrong forum! If so, please go to the (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=138) T3 Editors' Guild. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Caradavin on 14/12/2013 at 02:54
Using Dromed. I might seem stupid, but I'm actually just scatterbrained. I deleted the post in T3 forum because it was in the wrong forum; hence I am here. Thanks for the information. I did read the readme. I didn't understand it, though, and I'm still struggling with even what you have written. I'm not good at technical stuff, but I will try harder. I will use your information and do my best. Thanks for taking the time and having the patience to answer me.
Yandros on 14/12/2013 at 19:27
My bad on mentioning JPG, I meant DDS and just had a senior moment. Caradavin, bottom line is you should just use unpalettized textures for most stuff nowadays, which means PNG in most cases. That goes for fam as well as obj and mesh textures. The main no-no to avoid (I think) is don't put unpalettized textures in the same family as palettized ones (like dropping them into an existing family with old palettized textures in it) - just create a new family for those, since there's no need to force them into an old family folder anyway (since they aren't palettized).
R Soul on 14/12/2013 at 20:57
Quote Posted by LarryG
DON'T mix palette-based formats (GIF and PCX) in the same family with non-palette-based formats (DDS, TGA, PNG, etc.)
Quote Posted by Yandros
The main no-no to avoid (I think) is don't put unpalettized textures in the same family as palettized ones
I don't think it's an issue. My current mission was started before NewDark, so there were quite a few gifs. Most have been replaced but not all, so I'm using a mixture and have seen no errors. And the EP does it if not all family textures are replaced.
It is nice though to be able to put new textures in wherever I want them, and to be able to tweak the colours without having to worry about the palette.
LarryG on 14/12/2013 at 21:22
I did have problems when I mixed them. I don't recall exactly what, but it went away when I made sure that a family only had true color images or only paletted images.
bassoferrol on 14/12/2013 at 22:50
I don't know why, but if you convert B03, B05 (and some others from bafford fam folder) to PNG, either to 8-bit or 24-bit, these textures look weird. Textures from the other folders look ok.
