jtr7 on 4/11/2012 at 07:54

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Relating to previous statements, before I get on with why I'm posting here, we never did see what the back exit led to, and there was no development reason to close it and build another chamber the west, unless they were referring to something and didn't tell us. I don't believe the blue sky was chosen poorly, especially when it took adding in another texture, unless the original design of the mission start was daytime. I'm not convinced enough that it's a mistake, but speaking of mistakes, there's yet one more of a type that plagues a few official maps across the trilogy.

I believe I've solved a favorite mystery of mine, so I no longer wish to know what it was about, 'cause it's not a mystery. The symbol in the upper-left corner of the Lost City map has nagged at me off and on for years, but I never really searched that hard for answers, especially in specifics. While watching documentaries on Egypt and the structures all over, under, and around Giza and beyond, I put my mind to that unused symbol, again.

As (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98722&p=1303197&viewfull=1#post1303197) Eshaktaar once pointed out, the figure of the woman is based on the Sky Goddess Nut (of the variations of the name, Neuth, Nuit, or Newet, I chose to use Nuit, so it's closer to the most correct version spelled in a modern Western alphabet, but doesn't look like an English noun that's very different, heh heh).

The location of the Emperors' tombs and sarcophagi is on the diagonal opposite of the map, but the relation of the symbol to the tombs is not only unmistakeable in how it was applied, but it's further supported by the design of the room. The tomb is way south of the area with the many cube buildings with the large river of lava flowing between them, so I don't have a problem ignoring the panel on the obelisk regarding the tomb, but the hawk and man portion of the panel seems more important-looking on the map, as though it refers to something else.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i106/jtr7/KarathDin-GoddessNuit.gif

Also, Va-Torag and Va-Toran were both considered Sons of the Sky, while Va-Taraq was also said to be the female earth's brother. So, I've revised my wishful-thinking and specific interest, and learned a little. I now say there is no hidden, unused, un-excavated, area represented by the symbol of Nuit. It belongs below the hawk and man symbols, just as the Dayport maps, Keeper Talisman Map, and Gamall's Artifacts Map have location and concept errors that arose from inevitable redirections in mission design, storytelling, and world-building.

Renault on 4/11/2012 at 17:10

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Wow, cool stuff jtr, I'm going to have to fire up The Lost City again. It's been awhile, but I have to say I don't remember that star ceiling room anywhere in TLC. This game still continues to amaze almost 15 years later, pretty awesome. Seems like there's lot of cool stuff that could be done in FMs with the Lost City and Precursors and whatnot.


Edit: Just fired it up in Dromed, and sure enough, its where the Mages are patrolling. Looking at the star ceiling now, it almost looks out of place, but I don't remember thinking that before, weird.

jtr7 on 7/11/2012 at 08:21

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:cool:

Yeah, I went looking, but not comprehensively, to see who else may have pointed it out, expecting your posts to bubble up, and Eshaktaar's post was the one that came up in multiple positive hits, so I linked it just to connect to a previous discussion, any one of them. Looking through the symbol choices for interesting coincidences and possible intentions still interests me, if anyone knows something. Since I ain't done with the Lost City, yet, it'll be fun to see what else crops up, and of course, there's the joy of learning a little more of many flavors of real world science along the way.

You had mentioned civilisations other than the Greek and Egyptian that were the direct influences (but certainly not the only two), and I am very interested in those scribblings in the margins, the secondary influences. As far as I know, the Lovecraftian homages in Karath Din are thoroughly noted (and across the three games), and the Dragonslayer film reference, but anything else someone may have noticed and maybe assumed others knew, or thought wasn't a big deal, are welcome.

jtr7 on 14/11/2012 at 23:04

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Thanks for giving it a go!

jtr7 on 15/11/2012 at 03:18

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Yes, indeed!

I wonder how many of the tweaks and patched bits and AI behaviors in all missions in Gold will be quite noticeable to you, and how many will go barely noticed. For the bigger changes to remind you of to not expect out of habit, versus being surprised for the first time, there are no Fire Shadows, but an expert such as yourself will not have a problem retaining your fire arrows for the torch locks in the Bonehoard and Keeper Grotto. There is no Little Big World (sad face) in The Sword. There are two Talismans in the Hammer Temple, and the Lost City: No Mages there, some Craymen, some summoning, and the Water Talisman's holding place shows better what the thing can do, matching what we see for the Fire Talisman. There's no nice touch of dangerous-looking outgassing from opening the two sarcophagi. Two Keepers and the journal entries about them were cut entirely from Thief Gold--the whole paragraph was deleted, instead of removing the Water Talisman reference, but that just means the proportional body-count was raised, though I don't like the Keepers depicted as even less-skilled, unless they were sent to their doom by Gamall, like Rafe, and others. :ebil:

I still have no idea what power Lady Valerius thought she was going to gain with the Water Talisman, beyond a small free water source, like a weak drinking fountain. It's a wonder there was no puddle in or around the chest she held it in, heh heh, which I would tweak if I could make a change there, maybe just set it in a temporary basin, and modify the note she leaves about it. Raoul would definitely benefit from it more than her, should he need to travel.

As usual in this universe, the Earth element doesn't have a nice fit and is always the odd one out. The Earth Talisman generates nothing, but is, in itself, rock, I suppose. If I changed something, I'd add a dirt pile and sprouts, and make it Pagan-y so the Hammers are happy to guard it, heh heh, or make the protection field also a containment field that prevents both of the Talismans from generating their elements, or modify a text to hint at it. I do quite like the choice made to give the Hammers the Air Talisman in Gold, as it doesn't yield them components for their forges. None of the Talismans' output ever seem to lead to crystal growth, even after five decades, but Thief Gold clears that up with human guardians around, except for the Fire Talisman.



Another thing I wonder about, simply because of the work put into it, are the two sarcophagi, the only two with a classic coffin shape. One is a simpler flat-lidded version, painted to match the order of the elements presented in the four main floors of the Tower/Temple of N'Lahotep--paired opposites, with Air/Earth at the head, and Water/Fire, at the feet, and it is separate, distanced, and much less protected or hidden than Va-Torag's, which could make it a previous cleric's. The sarcophagus of Va-Torag, the beloved father of Va-Toran, has a carved lid shaped and textured to look like a dead man in repose grasping a sword, lying underneath a sheet like a cadaver. The covering makes it look a great deal unimpressive and kinda scary, like it's just a dead man, not a beloved Emperor, even though the timeline allows for decoration. There is no suggestion of other previous Emperors' tombs anywhere, just other Emperors.

Note, too, that there are only two special sarcophagi, and the rest are one square type, with headrests on top. The missing bodies could mean something creepy in a world with so much undead, but most of the city's been thoroughly looted before Garrett arrives, including canopic jars. There must not be a great respect for archeology, or they are just notoriously lacking funding in Garrett's time, since an archeologist would appreciate even broken bits of jars, and Garrett isn't interested, which could also suggest that the gold-colored bands aren't even precious metal. :p

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i106/jtr7/LC_Sarcophagi.png