Actually, why did LG change the plot in Thief 2

Bulgarian_Taffer on 24/2/2006 at 23:34

I'm talking about the mission in Thief 2 demo... after publishing the demo, the plot of the game changed and the mission in the demo was converted into Life of the party...
And some of the new missions were terrible. And the plot was terrible in the beginning. Helping Basso? Shipping and receiving? Nothing happens... eh!
Tumbleweed told me long time ago that Shipping and receiving is a perfect example of how not to make a mission. Yes, he is right! Big solid blocks, looong walks and this makes the mission boring...
After that Thief 2 has lovely missions, we have Eavesdropping, we have Ambush, we have Blackmail, we have Track the courier, we have Trail of blood and we have Life of the party. These missions are classic!
But after that the plot once again proves to be boring... I didn't like Masks and Cargo, but I remember I enjoyed the Lost city in Kidnap.

T-Smith on 24/2/2006 at 23:55

The plot was probably different in 'The Uninvited Guest' because LGS didn't want any of the story to be spoiled.

As for why the story was the way it was in the final game, I recall reading that in Thief 1 the missions were made to suit the story, while in Thief 2 the story was made to suit the missions.

Really though, think back to Thief 1. Yes, back then it was very exciting as we slowly learned about The City in the first few missions, got to know about Garrett and other factions. But really, the main story of TDP doesn't kick in until The Sword. Before then there isn't too much of a story - just Garrett trying to get money from the Bafford job. And really, although it wowed me way back then, looking back now, Bafford's really wasn't all that great a mission. I have fond memories of it, sure, but comparing it to virtually any other mission in all the Thief games really shows how plain it is (except perhaps the training mission in Thief 3, that was disgustingly short and simple).

Personally, I really enjoy the story in Thief 2. It may not be quite as good as TDP (and not nearly as mcuh as DS) but I still find it engaging, and I love most all of the missions (except Soulforge... god damned taffing turret room...).

tpwdct on 25/2/2006 at 01:04

I agree with you about Casing and Masks (at least as consecutive missions). You spend a few late missions dealing with the mechanists, get fired up for a big, exciting climax, and instead get "Go deal with this guy for a couple of missions, then we'll get back to the mechanists."

[SPOILER]Maybe if they combined the rules of Casing and the goals of Masks, things would be different. But after spending some time running around a mansion looking for a secret door that leads to the masks, I'm usually pretty burnt out and not looking forward to doing the same thing on the next mission.[/SPOILER]

I don't know if comparing The Metal Age story to The Dark Project story is fair. Yeah, Karras is a jerk and all, but [SPOILER]Constantine makes you search the entire freakin' city, above ground and below, for the four talismans. Then he makes you grab the eye out of a freaky cathedral filled with undead and haunts. And what does he give you in return? He rips your eye out and leaves for dead in his garden. And while you're working your way out of that, he's off killing the hammerites.

In TMA, Karras is just sitting back. Every once in a while, he'll say, "Hey, Garrett. What's up? Up to no good? Tisk tisk. Okay, I'll let it slide." He doesn't play you like Constantine does. It's almost insulting. I mean, at least throw an offer out there. Cavador's job would've been pretty cool. Karras could offer it to Garrett and stab him in the back by raising the rent on his apartment. Something to get involved. Yeah, Karras tries to destroy the city, but it's not in that son-of-a-bitch way that Constantine does it.[/SPOILER]

T-Smith on 25/2/2006 at 01:10

[SPOILER]I dunno man, I think transforming people into mindless 'Servants' then using them to incinerate all life in The City (in what sounds like a rather painful process from the screams of the test subject Karras showed to Truart) kind of qualifies as 'Son of a bitch'.[/SPOILER]

tpwdct on 25/2/2006 at 01:23

True, but I see Garrett as looking out for himself before others. TDP's story seemed more personal than TMA's. [SPOILER]Garrett could've just waited in Soulforge until the rust gas settled and had free reign over the city.[/SPOILER]

Captain on 25/2/2006 at 01:28

Quote Posted by tpwdct

[SPOILER]Tch, yeah, with a crazy religious leader that would still want him dead, and with no one to steal from but mechs and servants.[/SPOILER]

T-Smith on 25/2/2006 at 01:35

Quote Posted by tpwdct

[SPOILER]
OK, I realize Garrett's a selfish, arrogant, and cruel bastard, but do you honestly believe he'd have it in him to just sit around twiddling his thumbs while everyone in The City was being turned to ash, and he knew how to stop it? Besides, what's the point of him having 'free reign over the city' if there's no fences to sell loot too, no shop keepers to buy items from, no more guards to sneak past for the thrill of it. As cynical and as big a bastard he may seem to be, it's clear that deep, very deep down, Garrett's a decent guy. Thief 3 kind of proved that.

Oh, and there's also some personal stuff for Garrett in Thief 2. I think the second to last cinema kind of showed Garrett had come to regard Viktoria as a friend - he last minute attempt to try and reason with her to wait for help and the way he screamed out her name showed that. Plus, Karras had tried to have Garrett killed before. It was him that had Truart organize the trap for him in 'Ambush!'.[/SPOILER]

jtr7 on 25/2/2006 at 07:48

Besides,
[SPOILER]Garrett likes trees.;) [/SPOILER]

By the way,
[SPOILER]were the original Masked Servant concepts given form? With their numbered bucket-shaped heads?[/SPOILER]

Anyway, as far as mission design, I like variety. Shipping... and Receiving is fun for me now that I know what the taff I'm doing. I like how Thief 2 eases you into how to be a Thief, gets you comfortable, then builds up. I should mention that I played Thief 2 first, as it came with a soundcard, then I went and bought the first one, [SPOILER]'cause I had to find out how Garrett lost his eye after I heard Karras tell him he gave him the mechanical one.[/SPOILER] So, you can see how I came to have my perspective on the issue. Casing the Joint is the lamest mission for me, especially since I can get into places we weren't meant to. But that level was also never completed by the dev's. It's one of those things where I wish I could see what the dev's. would've done with the missions and storyline had they been able to take the necessary time. Ah well....

Ambush worked very well, the first time through, in convincing me I was going to die, I had to run for my life, etc. [SPOILER]Now, I laugh at those AI, all the way through.[/SPOILER]

Vigil on 25/2/2006 at 09:26

[SPOILER]Why don't you just stick the word "SPOILERS" in the thread title instead.[/SPOILER]

Taffer36 on 27/2/2006 at 23:21

Anybody who doesn't want the game to be spoiled shouldn't even be in a thread where half of the writing is spoilers, so enough with the tags.

I actually enjoyed the first few missions of Thief 2. The first mission was a nice introductory training mission showing Garrett has a good side (instead of being a 1D character). Shipping and Receiving is where T2 really picked up. I loved that mission. However, it did seem kind of tedious towards the end trying to wander around looking for the last bit of loot. Framed was also excellent. The missions just kept on getting better and better.

However, I got bored later on in T2 as well. Precious Cargo was a really odd mission. I did enjoy Kidnapping, it was nice to compare it to the LC mission in TG. Casing the Joint and Masks... I didn't even like it the first time. Yay! Another standard mansion mission that looks just like the rest! Then lets do it again! Woo!

Am I the only one who actually liked the final cutscene? It did end in a sort of, "Whaaa?!", but I still enjoyed it. All it needed was for the music to come in and a slow zoom out of Soulforge.