xxcoy on 8/7/2006 at 13:48

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Not only much but everything in my opinion.

I can tell for the german version only, but having read all the letters found in the scenario, you find out, Moseley contacted Vic after she found out, that Truart had some little deal with Karras.
She's a quite idealistic person and more and more losing faith in her job as a police officer, that's what makes her play the role of a traitor.

As you can see in her diary, she's more sympathetic to pagans than mechanists and unhappy to see nature fading away. As you see in Truarts letters and notes, she had been a loyal and dependable police officer before.
It's a typical thing for an idealistic person to give a 100%, as long as being persuaded to do the right thing.
It's as typical to become a 100%-opponent, if this persuasion gets compromised.

She tries to protect pagans, but she knows, her influence on Truart is decreasing and her denial to fulfill her "duties" will not be hidden forever. So she has to do something to discredit her rival Hagen (I don't know, if he's called Hagen in the original version either?) and win some time.
I'm sure, she's the one making Garrett intrude Shoalsgate and place a false evidence there, I also think, Vic helps her in doing that:

Mosley's offer must seem very advantageous to Victoria, for having a loyal insider near Truart is valuable at this time. Her first step is to strengthen Mosleys position - her second step is to use Mosley's keys and knowledge for killing Truart. After that, the direct link between mechanists and police is broken.

There is only one question left: Why did her assassin leave the key behind?
The letters mention a warning from Vic to Moseley about that - so it is not believable, it was left behind to cast the blame on Mosley and get rid of her.
In the same letter, Mosley annotates her lack of understanding, why her emblem was not removed from the key ring.
These two informations (why are these things mentioned exspecially, if not to make the player notice them?) tell about a hidden agenda in my eyes.

Vic has a lot of spies around, knowing a lot about things going on in town. She knows that she and Garrett have the same enemy - the thief is even mentioned in one of Mosley's letters. She even choses him to place the false evidence in Shoalsgate.

In my opinion, her assassin leaves behind the key ring to bring Mosley into Garrett's focus - so he can find Vic.

If you want to unite two opponents, you have to give them the same enemy.
Victoria needs help - and she knows that there is one man able to help her, for he was able to defeat her.


Sorry for my bad English, as you surely noticed, I'm not a native speaker. If you are quite good in reading german, you can find my analysis of the german notes an letters (http://www.darktales.gamers.de/00000095a9128f216/00000096270128201/000000962701b8935.html) here.
The relationship Mosley-Vic had been quite a big theme in the german eidos-forums.

theBlackman on 9/7/2006 at 08:51

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Regarding the Rust gas. Most of you don't get the message. The Rust gas does not kill people. It destroys ALL CARBON BASED MATERIAL. That means, no plants, no animals, no insects etc. and of course, no people.

What Karras figured he'd eat when all was said and done and the fat lady sang I don't know.

But for Garrett to hide in Soulforge would just let him starve to death with Karras. Any suggestions toward that ploy is really uninformed.

I favor TDP for a lot of reasons, some of which have been mentioned. In the main TMA, TDS suck for a story line, and although TDP followed the formulaic "Kill the Boss in a big scene at the end." The game was much more of a challenge, the missions more involved and none of this "What the hell! This map/mission is really dull and a dumb plot." Casing/Masks the best example of this.

The finale in Soulforge in TMA is a close second, although getting around and surviving was a bit of a trick. I do think the "Turret Room" was a little overkill. It can't be done without damage to you and the Turrets thereby insuring discovery by Karras, (and in fact a good stock of Health is advised before attempting it). As the objectives clearly state "don't be discovered by Karras" the very second the mission starts you are discovered. Karras should have sent every Warbot, and guard in the place down to kill your young ass. But no... He babbles at you constantly in nearly every room you pass through, (he obviously knows you are there and have "Failed" the mission before you even started.

Inconsistancies of a minor nature don't bug me but big ones like that do.

CountMRVHS on 9/7/2006 at 15:44

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One of the notes you find in Soulforge actually gives you an interesting view into Karras' own kind of inconsistency. I believe it's the diary of a Mech priest of some kind, who writes that he went to visit Karras and was astonished to hear Karras recommend using *humans* for some task, because human hands and fingers were more effective for some things than the metal claws he built for the robots. Clearly in that semi-private moment, Karras slipped a bit in his relentless insistence that organic creatures are useless. I found it a very realistic touch: the psychotic cult leader having a moment of hypocrisy that turns against his own teachings.

So, with that, I think we can assume Karras might let himself have a nice, green leafy salad once in awhile. :cheeky:

theBlackman on 10/7/2006 at 07:48

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Read the rest of it. The statement so says.



To be sure, I should have said NOT ONLY PEOPLE, but the rest of the statement clarifies that and includes People.

The assumption made by most players is that only people would be destroyed.

Dussander on 10/7/2006 at 11:17

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No they wouldn't, since Victoria filled the cathedral with plants, in the game, for the rust gas reaction. I doubt anyone would think that only people will die...