MrMunkeepants on 15/8/2009 at 07:01
I like the argument Harle made ((
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1884316#post1884316) back here) for the use of creaking floors; I still think there should be some sort of visual clue that the floor is going to creak. I'm used to looking for slight edges of pressure plates, perhaps boards being a different texture would be enough? something worn or slightly mildewed, the same kind of board that would creak from weathering if it were outside (and in fact will creak when it is used outside.) would that be enough of a "I've seen what that surface does before" clue for the players?
Quote Posted by Jarvis
when moving at a slow stalk the controller might rumble before a step, indicating that the step may be noisy.
this is why we need rumble mice!
jtr7 on 15/8/2009 at 09:00
Warped-looking, more space between the seams.
Albert on 15/8/2009 at 12:56
Seams... In wood...
*Consults Dictionary...*
jtr7 on 16/8/2009 at 01:26
Between boards.
sephirothalex on 21/8/2009 at 05:30
Posted this in another thread too, but I don't think guards should always be alerted by your footsteps if they're regular, and not crashing or anythign unusual. After all, the other guards make noise when they walk too, how could a guard determine whether or not your footsteps belonged to another guard or to a thief?
jtr7 on 21/8/2009 at 05:49
Different boots, and one walking with caution vs. one patrolling.
Actually, take a night job as a janitor, in a building that is not quite empty at night. Sounds travel farther and sounds from certain areas get more noticed than others. When transients come in to use the restroom, they come in through doors that the regulars don't (trying not to be seen when regulars don't care about that), walk differently (drunken, in pain, stiff from sleeping under a tree, creeping, nervous), and are clothed differently (more layers, cheaper cloth, a muted swishing from the oil and sod and worse). Without realizing it, you will find you have learned to tell who belongs and who might not by sound alone. If Garrett doesn't weigh 300 lbs. for all he's toting, and we are to believe he's as light as he looks, compared to an armoured guard his footsteps would sound lighter. Rolling the feet or stepping with toes first changes the sound vs. landing on the heel. I used to be a punk as a teenager and learned to pay attention to my footfalls, and as a mostly-responsible adult at a university on the night-shift, I can assure you, nearly all of my coworkers have honed their listening skills for intruders and whoever is in the building. Some of it is for personal safety reasons, and some of it is for waiting for someone to leave so we can finally clean an area, and some of it is because some doors don't latch themselves and we have to check the latch of whichever one of those doors a person exited/entered through. It becomes second nature. And nothing like a little paranoia or expectation that something may go wrong, compounded by seeing someone suspicious outside as we throw out the trash, to keep the ears pricked and the eyes peeled.
Now, if a thief wears quiet shoes and knows how to walk over various surfaces, the footsteps may be quiet, but on any upper-floors or hollow floors, the floor bounces lightly, and any heel thumps travel easily through the floor. Slow and quiet are critical when you can't count on another's daydreaming or attentive focus on something other than their surroundings. Of course, noise in the area, especially if it's not a steady sound (the ears can filter the noise enough to detect anomalies), can mask footsteps that aren't quiet.
The guy that broke in here knew what he was doing--except for the part concerning the janitors making their rounds after locking the building to check for these kinds of things. Oh, and we saw him come in at five-minutes before lock-down, and of course we had to make sure he left on time. BUT, he wore the aptly-named sneakers, working gloves, and a long-sleeved hoodie. He got away and we couldn't identify him beyond lean and tall. Our first clue was the chair in the hall he used to climb up into the ceiling with. From a distance, we could see the chair, but not the ceiling. When my eyes focused into the dark space above (lit here for the photo), I saw his legs and butt first, and that his toes were resting on the framing, and that his whole upper-body was curled over that insulated piping. He was shaking. We then noticed the crushed ceiling tile with the smoke detector and his footprint on the professor's cork board. Later, we found he had put a towel over one camera and pushed another upward toward the ceiling. He worked fast, and had obviously planned ahead. He just had no idea that my coworker and I were still going to be working for another two hours.
(
http://s70.photobucket.com/albums/i106/jtr7/?action=view¤t=123105_CBAInfiltration.jpg)
Inline Image:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i106/jtr7/th_123105_CBAInfiltration.jpgsephirothalex on 21/8/2009 at 06:02
Quote Posted by jtr7
Different boots, and one walking with caution vs. one patrolling.
Actually, take a night job as a janitor, in a building that is not quite empty at night. Sounds travel farther and sounds from certain areas get more noticed than others. When transients come in to use the restroom, they come in through doors that the regulars don't (trying not to be seen when regulars don't care about that), walk differently (drunken, in pain, stiff from sleeping under a tree, creeping, nervous), and are clothed differently (more layers, cheaper cloth, a muted swishing from the oil and sod and worse). Without realizing it, you will find you have learned to tell who belongs and who might not by sound alone. If Garrett doesn't weigh 300 lbs. for all he's toting, and we are to believe he's as light as he looks, compared to an armoured guard his footsteps would sound lighter. Rolling the feet or stepping with toes first changes the sound vs. landing on the heel. I used to be a punk as a teenager and learned to pay attention to my footfalls, and as a mostly-responsible adult at a university on the night-shift, I can assure you, nearly all of my coworkers have honed their listening skills for intruders and whoever is in the building. Some of it is for personal safety reasons, and some of it is for waiting for someone to leave so we can finally clean an area, and some of it is because some doors don't latch themselves and we have to check the latch of whichever one of those doors a person exited/entered through. It becomes second nature. And nothing like a little paranoia or expectation that something may go wrong, compounded by seeing someone suspicious outside as we throw out the trash, to keep the ears pricked and the eyes peeled.
Now, if a thief wears quiet shoes and knows how to walk over various surfaces, the footsteps may be quiet, but on any upper-floors or hollow floors, the floor bounces lightly, and any heel thumps travel easily through the floor. Slow and quiet are critical when you can't count on another's daydreaming or attentive focus on something other than their surroundings. Of course, noise in the area, especially if it's not a steady sound (the ears can filter the noise enough to detect anomalies), can mask footsteps that aren't quiet.
Good point, so I guess part of making that more realistic is by making Garrett's footsteps sound different from the guards. In the original two, (don't yet have a more powerful computer for third, will for 4th though) they all seemed to be wearing tapshoes and weighing roughly 300lbs as you said.
Brother_Murus on 3/9/2009 at 13:59
In Thief 1, 2, When you blackjack guards they just fall to the ground. :idea: I think they should make it so that when he hits the ground it is enough to make any other AIs in earshot of him to become startled enough to go into search mode. I think that they should make a feature that allows you to grab him before he hits the ground, allowing him to stealthily dispose of guards and any-other random things he comes across. If the player doesn't catch the guard in time, if he is in a heavily guarded area, he will most likely be caught, killed, or sent back to Cragscleft (Does it still exist?)
Syndef on 3/9/2009 at 22:19
J's 300-pound comment gave me an idea.
The sound you make has GOT to increase as the weight of items you're carrying goes up (your speed should slow down after a certain point, too). This way, you have to make a tactical choice of what to steal: to maximize the value of the loot, while keeping the total weight low. However, it's only up to the player to see how much they can get away with. :cheeky:
Think about it: You can choose the easy way and steal all those damn goblets and candlesticks in the front of the mansion, and make a loud, jingly dash for the exit. Or, you can take risks and sneak all the way to the inner mansion, and steal the small, lightweight, and extremely valuable items like the lord's ring, or some special gemstone, and effectively sneak your way back out since you're carrying only a handful of extremely valuable stuff compared to a sack-full of generic crap of equal value.
This way, you also have the chance to give die-hard fans something to be proud of, since I know some of you will try to steal EVERYTHING, anyway. Burdened by loot greater than your body weight, you will have a difficult time getting back out unseen (and impossible for you to be unheard), but think of how good you'll feel once you make it back out alive.
Oh, yeah. I forgot:
To implement this is easy. First, the audio designer simply has to create a basic rustling/jingling sound that is to play along with each footstep sound. The variables in this case are: the total weight of the items being carried by the player(x), the volume (detectability) of the rustling/jingling sound(y), and player speed(z). As x increases, y increases and z decreases. Very simple.
jtr7 on 3/9/2009 at 23:39
It will also increasingly kill the fun, unfortunately. Gaming versus realism.:erg:
