Mr.Math on 6/4/2015 at 21:20
Hello ttlg,
as a unceasing Thief fan, I always find time to replay my favourite game and some of the best FMs this great community created. After all those years of Thief, the game can still capture me, however what I find lacking is the AI. Ironically, it was the AI, that attracted many of us originally to this game, however the AI in games made some progress. I do not think that dated tech this game runs on concern us as it also allows to create more open/large missions (I cannot imagine playing Seven Sisters or Broken Triad on Thief 3 or Darkmod engines).
The reason this has become more noticable to me is my recent play of No One Lives Forever 2 (I do not know about mechanics in the first one). That is also stealth oriented game, and it is only like 2 years younger then Thief 2 (2002). I was very surprised about the AI behaviour there. Apart from three basic states we can see also in Thief (suspicious, searching, chasing), their undisturbed state is much more complex. Apart from patrolling, the AI there can go sleep/sit, turn on/off lights, they are writting by the table, then go to bathroom or smoking/drinking, searching cabinet, they simply have many activities around the places, which can create funnier/more interesting scenarios compared to the constant walking/one frame animation sitting of the Thief AI. also, when you knock out somebody, he wake up after some time. After he wakes up, he can alert his allies, so it actually make gameplay difference between knocking and killing.
I have played Ominous Bequest recently. As atmospheric/beautifully crafted mission as it is with both story and desing, when you stop for a minute, you can only hear dozens of endless walking sounds. One of the main reasons why I still returns to Thief and it`s FMs is the great atmosphere, however this often downgrades something that could have been even more engaging.
So I was wondering, if somebody tried or if it is possible to add some diversity to the AI behaviour in Thief or if somebody tried something like that? With NewDark, I think this would spark some new activity with FMs.
Thanks for your patient reading :)
User 205 on 7/4/2015 at 16:54
An AI mod would be great. Also the Ai should climb ladders, swim, jump..., that would definitely make escaping more intense :D
Mr.Math on 7/4/2015 at 18:24
Of course, another thing, that was also present in NOLF 2. I think that once you know how far can you push the AI, the game becomes very easy as their fighting skills, while looking great, are too clumsy to be dangerous, if you are not driven to the corner by the mob. Once you jump on a bit larger obstacle or climb the ladder, they are powerless. However these are difficult things to accomplish I guess.
Cigam on 7/4/2015 at 18:41
TBH in Nolf 2 the fact that unconscious enemies would wake up only encouraged me to put them down permanently. I remember lot of instances of silent non-lethal takedowns follows by dragging the unconscious body to a hiding spot then finishing them with the silenced pistol.
Of course in Thief depending on the skill there may be restrictions against this, but this would have spoiled things for me I think. I would not have felt like I could play at my own pace, and would feel rushed by the ticking time-counter.
That was one of the criticisms some had of new Thief, that there were sequences that forced you to rush.
Mr.Math on 7/4/2015 at 20:26
Quote Posted by Cigam
Of course in Thief depending on the skill there may be restrictions against this, but this would have spoiled things for me I think. I would not have felt like I could play at my own pace, and would feel rushed by the ticking time-counter.
I agree that they used to wake up too quickly in NOLF2. For Thief, I always thought the best solution would be if they are awaken only by some other guard, or if you walk over them/hit them.
Gabriel Loup on 8/4/2015 at 14:11
Thief 2 wasn't released in 2002, it was released in 2000. Oh and i agree that Thief 1 and 2's AI is shit and even with mods it doesn't solve it. Deadly Shadows and Thief 4 improved so much since then. I wish someone could possibly port the Thief 1 and 2 missions into Thief 3, there is such a mod already in progress but it's going slow as hell. Thief 3 was in my opinion the best Thief game, since the mechanics there were usually much better and so was the level design much improved from the earlier games. Hell, you can climb on stone walls later on with an upgrade! How cool is that?
Only thing that's missing in Thief 3 is sword fighting, and most of all a block button. At least they added that back in Thief 4.
Purgator on 8/4/2015 at 19:48
He didn't say Thief 2 was released in 2002, he's talking about NOLF 2.
NOLF 2 was released in 2002, making it two years younger than Thief 2 (2000).
He is Mr.Math, after all! :cheeky:
Baldur on 9/4/2015 at 07:29
I have been requesting / complaining / asking the modding community to focus upon the same, i.e, improving the A.I.I'm literally disappointed at no interesting mod available for upgrading the A.I and make it a lot more better than the vanilla experience.So, yes, its high time, the modding community take this seriously and spend more time on giving us A.I mods for the story campaign in T1/2.Its something I'm quite angry and upset about for past so many years.Give us A.I mods and challenging enemies goddamn it.
Gabriel Loup on 9/4/2015 at 12:16
Not so much, it only reserves all the AI stats. They're actually smarter for hearing certain things such as you running on dirt, but they have a harder time hearing you walking across metal for example. Their vision was also reduced as well. Some of their behaviors after they get alerted of your presence is also modified.
Not such an improvement, and on Thief Gold it makes the tutorial glitchy since you are no longer spotted if you walk on the light, actually useful for speedrunning. I ended up completing the tutorial level in 1 minute 40 seconds.
