Phatose on 10/2/2010 at 04:44
Requiring that punkbuster be running in the background IS a requirement on the game itself. And you can buy steamworks games in retail stores - steamworks does not mean steam is the only available distribution method. Amazon, GoGamer, newegg - all happy to sell you a copy. Maybe your local gamestop too, if they have a pc section left there. Not likely to see it on D2D, sure - but really, that's a business decision by D2D.
sNeaksieGarrett on 10/2/2010 at 05:58
No, you're missing the point. The problem is not that there isn't a way to buy steamworks games in stores, it is that said games in stores use steam. In other words, you're being forced to use steam (i.e. a 3rd party program, not just an internet system like punkbuster) whether it is in the store, or through steam itself. The issue is not that you can/can't buy steamworks games in stores.
Anyway, can we stop talking about this stuff? I thought we were supposed to be talking about AVP. :o
Phatose on 10/2/2010 at 06:08
If that's the point, it's no wonder I missed it, since punkbuster is a program too. It's like being mad you're forced to use DirectX or OpenGL.
Yakoob on 10/2/2010 at 06:56
WHAT? AvP has no OpenGL and forces you to use DX? That is bullshit! BULLSHIT :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Sulphur on 10/2/2010 at 06:57
Quote Posted by Phatose
If that's the point, it's no wonder I missed it, since punkbuster is a program too. It's like being mad you're forced to use DirectX or OpenGL.
I'm pretty mad we're not running games from a DOS prompt any more. What's this windows requirement shit :mad:
Zygoptera on 10/2/2010 at 08:06
Because it could cut down on so much future pointlessness if it could just be taken on board...
Quote Posted by dethtoll
The reason I exclude developers and publishers is precisely because their support of Steamworks is a business decision
If you'd said something like "Nobody is arguing for [mandatory Steamworks] except those who have a vested interest in it" or even "nobody here.." in the first place there would not have been a problem, everyone would have known what you meant and just about everyone would have agreed.
But you didn't, unfortunately, and you then used the opportunity for clarification to compound things by saying something you admit was hyperbole and which actually implied the exact
opposite of what you really meant.
And that's your biggest problem and why you inevitably end up in an argument a day: you habitually (1) leave out the caveats/ reasons which make what you are saying more reasonable but (2) expect others to know what your caveats/reasons are despite not having told them, or, as in this case, having implied the complete opposite then (3) get all :mad::mad::mad: baby's first chan when people (somehow) don't know what your unstated caveats/reasons are or take your 'clarification' at face value. If you could just fix (1) you'd knock a good 90% of the pointless arguing you get into on the head before it even started.
Kuuso on 10/2/2010 at 13:57
Quote Posted by Zygoptera
If you could just fix (1) you'd knock a good 90% of the pointless arguing you get into on the head before it even started.
Would make his days that much longer though.
catbarf on 10/2/2010 at 14:34
Quote Posted by Phatose
If that's the point, it's no wonder I missed it, since punkbuster is a program too. It's like being mad you're forced to use DirectX or OpenGL.
Obviously there are varying degrees of intrusiveness to a program. You can't equate a program running in the background to one that controls your access to the game.
And DirectX and OpenGL is a poor example. With those, there's a huge difference in how the game works between render methods. You're not forced to use Steam because it in any way provides a superior experience, you're forced into it because of a business decision.
Phatose on 10/2/2010 at 16:34
Quote Posted by catbarf
Obviously there are varying degrees of intrusiveness to a program. You can't equate a program running in the background to one that controls your access to the game.
And DirectX and OpenGL is a poor example. With those, there's a huge difference in how the game works between render methods. You're not forced to use Steam because it in any way provides a superior experience, you're forced into it because of a business decision.
Requirements you don't mind are still requirements.
And that's my point - you're not more free without steam, you still have the same choice of play it or don't play it. The difference in level of choice available to you steam or no steam is zero.
Don't like steam? Fine, good. Plenty of reasons not to like it. But just say you don't like it. Freedom of choice at ain't stake, you just don't like steam.
