june gloom on 21/2/2010 at 05:20
Tribes, Rainbow Six, and all Star Wars properties were reasonably popular (for PC games of their respective periods) back in the day. So he's at least half-right with his examples.
That said, objective-based games where you had a list of objectives to achieve got started with Goldeneye. Thief and the first Medal of Honor pretty much immediately aped the concept, and the rest is history.
swaaye on 21/2/2010 at 07:48
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
System Shock 2 is one of those games that everyone's played and everyone loves and is consistently in every top 10 games of all time list published anywhere but at the same time everyone acts like it's an underground/underappreciated gem.
I don't think all that many people have even heard of Shock 2, let alone played it. Didn't the game bomb in sales (I remember reading that somewhere...), and frankly I don't run into many who even know it exists... It certainly isn't going to be re-entering the public mind anytime soon. Forgotten retro classic. Also, the game only really appeals to a niche of shooter fans in the first place. Sci-fi horror loving FPS RPG hybrid enthusiasts. :D
I have the "Classics" version of it myself. I bought it back around 2001 when it was on sale somewhere, but I didn't play it until 2006. For some reason it just didn't really work on me when it was new-ish. It is a quirky game and I think I remember losing interest very quickly due to the learning curve. IMO it also has almost no replay value. The first time thru is wicked but that's about all the game is good for.
Fragony on 21/2/2010 at 07:50
Rainbow Six had the option of objective based gameplay, but nobody played it, it didn't really change the gameplay. Team-based objectives didn't really work until Battlefield 1942 was on to something.
swaaye on 21/2/2010 at 08:01
Quote Posted by Fragony
Rainbow Six had the option of objective based gameplay, but nobody played it, it didn't really change the gameplay. Team-based objectives didn't really work until Battlefield 1942 was on to something.
The big one from way back that comes to mind for me is UT99 Assault. A lot of people liked it but Epic wanted to drop it for some crazy reason. And then they did drop it in UT2003, which of course sucked ass due to so many incredibly curious design "innovations". And then UT2004 came, with Assault back in. They have done some truly mind boggling things to their franchise.
Malf on 21/2/2010 at 08:05
Quote Posted by Fragony
Rainbow Six had the option of objective based gameplay, but nobody played it, it didn't really change the gameplay. Team-based objectives didn't really work until Battlefield 1942 was on to something.
Didn't RtCW come out before BF1942?
Fragony on 21/2/2010 at 08:09
Quote Posted by swaaye
The big one from way back that comes to mind for me is UT99 Assault.
Agreed there, much better pick.
wootman on 21/2/2010 at 11:11
Quote Posted by Yakoob
None of which were mainstream shooters like Halo (aside from Q2 which you dont seem to really decide; havent played it so cant comment).
Quake 2 had a grenade hotkey (default 'g') which switched to that 'weapon' (an inventory item). Grenades could be picked up and used (initially) with the hands of the player, and later on the grenade launcher could be used instead.
As with other games (Quake, Half-Life, CounterStrike, etc.), scripts can be written and used to bind commands to perform a grenade switchto->throw->switchback with a single key press. The use of which is both praised and loathed in multiplayer games. :erg:
EvaUnit02 on 21/2/2010 at 13:03
Quote Posted by wootman
Quake 2 had a grenade hotkey (default 'g') which switched to that 'weapon' (an inventory item). Grenades could be picked up and used (initially) with the hands of the player, and later on the grenade launcher could be used instead.
Herp derp, that's just an alternative keybind to equip it vs. say just pressing the 6 key or whatever.That's not comparable to Halo's streamlined solution at all, you're still having to specifically equip it, thus breaking the flow of combat.
Quote:
As with other games (Quake, Half-Life, CounterStrike, etc.), scripts can be written and used to bind commands to perform a grenade switchto->throw->switchback with a single key press. The use of which is both praised and loathed in multiplayer games. :erg:
Non-native work-arounds != not core gameplay. By all means please do keep digging your pedantic hole though.
Goddamn stubborn PC elitists too entrenched in their pit of denial to just admit that the most influential FPS since Half-Life was a console game. Get over it.
wootman on 21/2/2010 at 13:47
Quote Posted by EvaUnit02
Herp derp, that's just an alternative keybind to equip it vs. say just pressing the 6 key or whatever.That's not comparable to Halo's streamlined solution at all, you're still having to specifically equip it, thus breaking the flow of combat.
Non-native work-arounds != not core gameplay. By all means please do keep digging your pedantic hole though.
Goddamn stubborn PC elitists too entrenched in their pit of denial to just admit that the most influential FPS since Half-Life was a console game. Get over it.
I've already agreed Halo is popular. There's no denying it implemented a lot of gameplay mechanics nicely, but these were influenced by many popular games before it. That's where its influence lies, tying them together.
Could these scripts/mods have also helped to influence a seemless gameplay device? Probably, if they were popular enough, and they certainly are for lots of FPS online games, especially online.
Aren't there more than one type of grenade in Halo - doesn't one button switch grenade types (cycle inventory) and another button throw the grenade (use inventory item)? I don't really see any difference, except that there might be temporary animation to throw a grenade with one hand (seemingly, seemless).
On subject of AVP3, played the demo but don't like the game too much - will wait for lower price. Also, did they change the Smartgun sound back to the original (film) version in the retail copy of the game?
/playing JP: Trespasser
EvaUnit02 on 21/2/2010 at 14:45
Quote Posted by wootman
Aren't there more than one type of grenade in Halo - doesn't one button switch grenade types (cycle inventory) and another button throw the grenade (use inventory item)? I don't really see any difference, except that there might be temporary animation to throw a grenade with one hand (seemingly, seemless).]
Jesus Christ, how many fucking times must this be explained to you? In FPSes it was standard to specifically equip grenades, thus un-equipping any guns. Afterwards you had to manually re-equip your gun. In Halo grenades were just instantly lobbed, your gun was never de-equipped, nor did you have to prime 'nades.
