FriendlyStranger on 22/5/2009 at 19:35
There is a difference between cut up levels and arrows with a different kind of behavious. Why should there be a Dromed problem - water and moss worked too - they could have implemented ballistics for fire and gas arrow, I'm sure about that, but they decided otherwise - and hey it only seems to be aproblem for a very very limited amount of people... I don't get what would be the gain out of EM changing gas/fire arrow behaviour.
Beleg Cúthalion on 22/5/2009 at 19:42
I have no problem if they don't change the way TDS handled it. :p And personally I don't care if there's few like me; I'm using a real bow from time to time and – even if I wouldn't – I think it's highly questionable to provide a realistic arrow simulation and a completely non-realistic one right next to it in practically the same context. Just because all of you got used to it doesn't make it less illogical.
pavlovscat on 22/5/2009 at 20:24
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
Hey, probably those TDS loading zones were magic as well. Stop complaining about them, this is Thief.
:laff: That gave me a good chuckle! I'm not knocking TDS, Beleg. I just didn't mind the differences in the arrows. In fact, I think that every type of arrow should have a different arc due to differences in weight and balance. No way is a rope arrow going to fly the same as a normal arrow, or even a crystal arrow. I can see the argument for all the crystal arrows having the same trajectory due to their magical nature, but they shouldn't fly the same as normal or rope arrows. That would be due to basic aerodynamics if nothing else. That's my opinion anyway.
theBlackman on 22/5/2009 at 20:43
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
I have no problem if they don't change the way TDS handled it. :p And personally I don't care if there's few like me; I'm using a real bow from time to time and – even if I wouldn't – I think it's highly questionable to provide a realistic arrow simulation and a completely non-realistic one right next to it in practically the same context. Just because all of you got used to it doesn't make it less illogical.
And of course FLOO FLOO game arrows fly EXACTLY like a hunting broadhead or a target arrow. Not in my world and experience of 30 or more years of making bows, arrows and hunting with same.
Tail on 22/5/2009 at 21:16
Quote Posted by FriendlyStranger
... I don't get what would be the gain out of EM changing gas/fire arrow behaviour.
Because, to me, it's more challenging and satisfying to have to judge the correct angle. Tends to be more flexible in allowing you to vary the power/distance of your shot, opening up more tactical applications to their use.
My problem isn't that a minority of arrows behave differently nor am I looking for an explanation as to why. Even if a majority (or all) of the arrows simply flew in a straight line, I'd want them to be changed because that is my personal preference. But if most (if it is most) people don't agree then it shouldn't change, obviously.
Beleg Cúthalion on 22/5/2009 at 22:07
Quote Posted by theBlackman
And of course FLOO FLOO game arrows fly EXACTLY like a hunting broadhead or a target arrow. Not in my world and experience of 30 or more years of making bows, arrows and hunting with same.
But even a thin carbon thingy shows signs of ballistics. :erg: It's not that I'd want all arrows to behave in the same way (although a trained archer like Garrett should be able to iron out different weights and arrow heads with fine tuning, spine and all that stuff), but fire and gas arrows in TDP/TMA were just rockets without engines. Garrett could have thrown them instead of messing with a bow.
Anyway, those
toilet brushes floo floo arrows could easily be the new noise makers.
5tephe on 25/5/2009 at 07:22
I like some of the ideas here: all arrows behaving radically differently, and I understand the argument that 'it's magic' but ultimately I have to come down on the side of Make All Arrows Arc.
I always did ask myself "Why?" when I fired each fire and Gas arrow. Sure, I had read the manual, and knew it was going to happen, and sure I got teh idea that there was magic in this world...
But one of the appealing things about playing Garret was the fact that he a) wasn't a Fighter, and b) wasn't a Mage.
A large part of his appeal was the fact that he wasn't uber-powered in any way, but that he used his skill and wits to not only compete but to THRIVE in this magic-fuelled, undead riddled, violent world, without the advantages that everybody else used. That was part of the reason you could so easily engage with his character: you could imagine yourself doing the same. It always felt like a shame to give him Magically powered arrows that made aiming easier.
So for my mind, I'd like to see a couple of changes that increase the skill of the player component:
* Arcing arrows, or ALL arrows behave differently, for well explained reasons
* A 'draw' mechanic. Possibly with the scroll bar of the mouse? So you could also vary the strength of the pull you give to the arrow string.
These could well be additional helpful little elements that make the game both more challenging and more immersive.
I think that unless you can come up with a convincing argument (more convincing than 'they're magic, dummie') for why some arrows behave in a non-intuitive manner, then it's better to apply all the usual rules: gravity, wind, ballistics, complicated surface density components, etc....
With modern game engines, there really ought to be enough to keep anyone busy without tacked-on artificial differences between arrows that don't have a good rationale.
FriendlyStranger on 25/5/2009 at 09:53
Garrett definitely got one of the most powerful special abilities - standing 3m away from a flare and not getting detected by a guard 1 ft away. Garrett himself also uses somekind of magic - the keeper in T1 states it in the intro: Normal people don't see a keeper who doesn't want to be seen...
I really don't get it whats the problem with 2 elemental arrows behaving another way.
There are countless other things which would have a real impact on gameplay
- don't having to jump to let a ladder go
- improved mantling, to prevent you from making jumpoing noises just cause the game doesn't recognize the piece in front of you.
-...
but from all these you pick out the ultimately regardless thing, that fire arrows and gas arrows don't fly ballistically correct. I tell you something: THIS will be your slightest problem with T4.
Beleg Cúthalion on 25/5/2009 at 10:02
Now you're comparing a gameplay mechanic to a (il)logical inconsistency. If that was a comparison on the same level like the arrow issue, it would be that Garrett had to jump to red ladders while he would be able to climb blue ladders normally and wouldn't be able to climb black ladders at all. Oh, and of course with a very blurry hint that red and black ladders might occur in the same context as red and black cursed screw drivers.
