Digital Nightfall on 23/3/2008 at 05:10

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There may be some debate about this, and conflicting precedents, but I am going to make a decision now which will hopefully simplify things in the future. This is a spoiler filled topic, but it is really much more of a general discussion topic. I feel that the hints and spoilers forum is for game information along the lines of walkthroughs and so forth. So, I am moving this thread to Thief Gen and changing the topic title (only to add the spoiler warning... I don't see how 'all the gamalls' is really a spoiler in itself).

Dussander on 24/3/2008 at 18:31

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Who now looks at Gamall in the T2 movies with disgust?

Beleg Cúthalion on 24/3/2008 at 23:36

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The girl had no name in TMA, had it?

I don't know if it was Vogelfrei who said that the thought of seeing Gamall in a little rowboat approaching the Abysmal Gale would be funny...or strange, creepy, whatever. There already have been exhausting discussions about the nature of the talismans I guess (imprisoned Keepers or something?!); this is another interesting thing to talk about...but now back to topic:

Keeper Xavier seems familiar to me, I hope not only from this very transcript. Do they appear in other books, jtr7? Personally I won't assume that Gamall took the shape of a lot of Keepers one after the other until there was real proof for that (just because it would seem too brute-force-fantasy-like for me, although this appears to be the most probable method for her to stay close to the order). I also doubt that it would be Gamall herself speaking in the council to spread chaos, although she might be that bold – together with these old reports about the newly-discovered glyph, Gamall could have been a really attractive sprightly woman. Drawing the strings from the background seems more keeperish to me. Plus, the TDS Keepers have proved to be quite decadent without her direct influence, so why not consider this transcript as the result of some Keepers who had lost balance for a while (and probably because of Gamall's doings), but not with her being one of the participants?

So much for the transcript, but I cannot feel anything really tangible in this matter. :erg: You can assume things to be either one way or the other.

jtr7 on 25/3/2008 at 00:25

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Yes to everything, Beleg.:)

T_auldale3LoadingQuote0: "If there is a betrayer within...then he will not appear as a villain...but as a trusted friend...even a leader among us. - former First Keeper Xavier"

k1_idle1: "Xavier would never have allowed it, but times are different and...Orland is First Keeper, now...."

k2_idle5: "New robes, I see. Somewhat...elaborate. The old robes were good enough for Xavier...."

Mage Towers briefing text: "'From unknown origins they came
They live isolated beyond the city
The extent of their arcane power is unknown
We must be very cautious in dealing with them
Close observation must continue'
-- Keeper Xavier, Treatise on Mages"

Keepers and Sentients:

m99v01a: "What are you doing, little man? Do you know about the ancient plan? The pact between us Sentients and the early Keepers? Or do you act on instinct?"

AULalbrechwritings: "The Writings of Albrech, Volume Three
Who shall watch the watchers? Who shall keep the Keepers? Alas, there is no one. No one to watch us. No one to keep us. This conclusion fills us with dread. For even a Keeper should not be left unchecked. So it became our work to plan for the worst possible contingencies. If at some distant time in the future, should the Keepers become unbalanced, then only our work now would stand in the way of disaster. This is why we labored so long and hard to create the Last of All Glyphs. Yet our best thinkers were not satisfied. What if, for some reason unknown, it came into play too soon? Before these future Keepers had a chance to complete an important task? So we devised the Sentients, each a separate key, each with a will of its own. The Heart, the Crown, the Paw, the Chalice, and the Eye. They would not consent to the journey, which would culminate in their annihilation, until the time was ripe and the One was present. To ensure success, five Keepers were recruited to make the crucial sacrifices. And so, the Last of All Glyphs, our safeguard, stands ready against Keeper corruption. I hope we have done service to the future. May the Unwritten Times never come."

Add to the information of the Forbidden Transcript:

SM3doversjournal: "Keeper Dover - Journal Entry Number 2136
I should have known better than to bring it up in front of the entire council. Still, my words had some effect, at least now there is the resolution forbidding it. I believe that will cause many to think twice should the temptation arise. Meanwhile, we should all be on the watch for the telltale signs - the dead animals, their life forces drained. It is not a love of creatures that compels me to speak out. No, they are pitiable, but inconsequential. I can only speculate on how long a Keeper could extend a normal lifespan in this way...a hundred...two hundred years? Maybe longer. But it would take more than vermin to accomplish that. And I, now that I posses the knowledge, can I truly say I too am not tempted? This is why I cannot remain silent. That, and the glyph that Elder Beryl speculates must exist - though we have yet to find - one that enables shape-shifting. What a potent elixer of glyph magics that would be."

jtr7 on 25/3/2008 at 03:03

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Heh heh. Indeed. And there's this:

M11KEEP2: "Keeper Andrus,
We are relieved to hear that you have successfully contained the destruction. It was for just such a contingency that the Elemental Wards have been saved these many years, and we support your decision to use them now, as the peril that you have described is grave indeed. We urge you to hide the Talismans with great care, as their discovery could lead to another such catastrophe. [TDP only: ‘It concerns us that the Hammerites have insisted on retaining two Talismans. Can they be trusted to guard them well?'] We worry also that your actions have exposed the truth of our existence to the world, which we must not allow.
Yours in knowledge,
Keeper Lukas"

More skins:

HIdreptfile: "Inspector Drept's Notes-
Mine investigation, in truth, continues apace into years long gone. More deaths hath I learned of that fit the pattern. The City Guards care for naught beyond the tips of their noses, so no connection didst they see. In a death thirty years past, the skin of the victim wast destroyed or removed. Another case twas six years later, and the report says only that the body wast 'mutilated', though it dost note a bent and aged woman was seen nearby."

AULgamalljournal: "Gamall's Journal
My efforts have met with obstacles, hindrances, delays...but there is a benefit to having Garrett alive. He can easily do what I cannot. The thief, the sneak. I know everything, and he knows nothing. My success is assured. It is time for recollection, retrospect. Decades, centuries past. I remember the day Somersault found the glyph. My glyph. And I knew, even I signed the covenant never to touch it, that it would be mine. It called to me. It sang me its song. Then it was foolish, trusting Vandolyn who shared with us his insight to use the glyphs against the accelerated aging. And it worked. Better than I hoped. And now I am more than any of them could have imagined. Of the recent past. The child Lauryl, whose form I used to hide from the others for so long. Sealed her grave with the glyphs, so that her skin would be mine for as long as I needed, wanted it. How did she escape? I still am unsure. And Orland, so easily manipulated by the letters. Signed with a C, any other would have unearthed my simple ploy. How easy it has been to remove from the Libraries the books that refer to me. And now for the future. I surmise that there are others following my path, my destiny. All they lack is the Glyph of Transmutation. And when the time comes, I will give it to them, my brethren, and more. I am become Glyphs. The time of secrets is almost over. A new age approaches."

m14v06d: "Do you remember, brother dear, when we were just children? The songs we'd sing...the games we'd play? You'd pretend to be the boogie man, or I'd be the old gray lady come to take your skin...such...(sobs) good times...."

m12v01a: "(Slightly-off Ring Around the Rosie) Mmm...mmm...mmm. Oldy lady gray, Came to take me ‘way, If you see me, it's a whim, It's her beneath my withered skin. Mmm...mmm...mmm. "

CasOldCity_010000, m02c0110: "You wouldn't believe it. Saw a rat once as big as a dog. (Hushed) I saw a man, dead in the street without his skin."
CasOldCity_011000, m02c011: "Come on! Who'd take somebody's skin?"
CasOldCity_012000, m02c0112: "Could be...
...nah, I won't say it. Nobody knows the whole city, how old it is, how many times it's been built over. Not the Hammerites, nobody."

c1_idle3: "(Sings absentmindedly) Fiddle-dee dum and fiddle-dee dee, the old gray lady is after me. She wants my shoes and she wants my skin. There's none so small that she can't fit in...."

c1_ycon1: "My luck...it's the old grey lady...come to take my skin...."

gmh_idle02: "Dance, dance, all of you dance in my game my plan follow the line of the glyph I draw and only I see it know it comprehend it...."

gmh_idle03: "They think they can control me use me shape me but ha ha ha I am the shape I control I use and they are all too blind to see...."

gmh_idle04: "Strong strong young and alive they were. Bring me their strength their blood their life their shape and make it mine mine yes mine and I am here and they are gone...."