Chade on 25/3/2008 at 06:37
I'm not hardcore enough to dig through logs like that, but I'm glad you are, jtr7 ... it's very interesting to see all the relevant snippets laid out one after another ...
jtr7 on 25/3/2008 at 06:53
:cool:
RavynousHunter on 25/3/2008 at 08:20
Damn, son, good friggin work! :thumb:
Considering Gamall can take damn near any form she wants (what with the whole cannibalizing people for bodies), it may be that the Keepers never recognized her as she would change forms every few decades or so to avoid suspicion (kinda like Calculon from Futurama).
jtr7 on 25/3/2008 at 08:34
Purely fanon, but I'm wondering if maybe she would have to sometimes act as two different Keepers at a time, a novice and an Elder, or just two different Keepers, and one would go off on an expedition and "die", while the other would be to take the dead one's place. I don't know how common the name of "Gamall" could be, since she's used the name twice that we see. I'm wondering, for fanon's-sake, how she could stay among the Keepers, cycling through various false lives. I wonder if maybe she was assigned a district to observe, and that's how she could act as a serial murderer, leaving the bodies to be found, and the Keepers were never suspicious themselves. Eh.
In the game textures, there's an empty skin, reminding me of Michelangelo's self-portrait in the Sistine Chapel, or the Edgar Suit:
Inline Image:
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/0/00/200px-Last_judgement.jpgInline Image:
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8112/genhumanskindkb0.pngI don't recall seeing it in the game. Anybody know if it was there?
Beleg Cúthalion on 25/3/2008 at 08:58
So this ominous Keeper meeting is not as old as it appeared to me first. Considering that the rumors about the missing Keepers had been taken from the agenda in present TDS Keeper affairs (and instead we have the Dark Age) leads me to the hypothesis that Gamall - and yes, from her role as the little girl as it were - influenced [the former first Keeper and/or] Orland to choke this discussion by using Orland's repect towards Caduca and his little overestimation of his capabilities to get him on a rollercoaster ride on Gamall's railways. Plus, this would also explain his fury to get somebody tangible (i.e. greater satisfaction than if it was just some unknown person) to punish for Caduca's death; the person he admired so much, even more when she apparently helped him in his office.
jtr7 on 25/3/2008 at 09:33
Cutscene garrett_on_trial:
Fred: (Off-screen) Interpreter Caduca? (Sees her dead body) Caduca? (Runs into Orland's chambers) Keeper Orland! (Rattled) Caduca is dead! M-murdered! I went to bring her the copy of Marand she requested, but then her door was open, she never leaves it open, and I looked in and...and--
Orland: (Interrupting Fred) Garrett has killed Interpreter Caduca, you say? Seize him and bring him to the Council Room.
Orland, later: (forceful, finger stabbing forward) ...This is the only murder in our ranks since these halls were founded by the first of our ancestors...
Various Keepers: (calmly)... But Garrett had no reason to kill Caduca. Has he not walked in line with the Prophecies before? Have we not...
...and yet some say the Prophecies point to him as Brethren and Betrayer, surely he knew that the Interpreter was about to name...
(angry) ...Do not forget that Garrett killed Constantine, (as if the thought just occurred to him) yes, and Karras as well - his hands - long stained with blood!
(trying to piece it together) ...yes, a thief, and no stranger to murder is he...
...does not match the manner in which Caduca was killed! How could Garrett have been the one who committed this act...
...remember that we *asked* Garrett to join us, to share his knowledge and skill, but now we turn upon him without proof as if we have put aside...
...broke in and destroyed the clock tower, petty vandalism as one might expect from a...
...noticed that the clock tower does appear that way from some angles.
(sound of Keepers murmuring in the background)
We must consider the implications! If that prophecy refers to one of us...
(sputtering and frothing with rage) ...any discussion about the clock tower is *irrelevant*! The matter at hand is murder! Done by one who we accepted as our guest and brother, who...
(disconcerted) ...seems to me that these proceedings are highly irregular. Should we not...
Orland: (furious, but in triumph) I have heard enough (book THUMPs shut)! Garrett, have you anything to say before sentence is passed?
Garrett: (unruffled) You haven't listened to anyone *else* yet, Orland. Why start now?
Orland: (loses control) Silence! You are declared guilty of Interpreter Caduca's murder! Your punishment will be determined by the Council. Now remove him!
Fred?: (later in Orland's office. calmly) I regret to inform you that Garrett has “escaped.”
Orland: (smiling darkly, not surprised) Very good. Call together the Keeper Enforcers. They will track him down and...(amused) *erase* our problem.
Cutscene gamalls_treachery:
Male Keeper 1: (somewhat confused) Gamall did this!
Garrett: Looks like we've got a new target for those assassins.
Male Keeper 2: Yes, but unfortunately the Enforcers are quite... (gesturing at the destruction around him) ineffectual against her.
Garrett: So what are you going to do?
Orland: (a broken man) She's found the Final Glyph.
Garrett: (thinking: what now) Final Glyph?
Male Keeper 2: (hesitantly, making up a lie) The Last of All Glyphs. It's a very powerful (choosing his words carefully) weapon.
Male Keeper 1: She will undoubtedly...
Female Keeper: (continuing the lie) activate it, and in doing so...wreak untold suffering, and also ensure her complete invulnerability, for all time.
Female Scribe: (Walks into the room) Keeper Orland! The treasures are gone! Gamall has taken the Chalice and the Paw!
Orland: Gone? The Artifacts... Then it was Gamall who wanted them, not.. not Caduca! (Looking up and around) You see I... I received these notes, that.. I thought they were from Caduca... Until they kept coming! Even after she was dead. I...
Male Keeper 2: It appears we have made things easy for Gamall. But what does she intend to do with the Artifacts?
Female Keeper: There is no way to know. Except - she must have a hidden lair, someplace where she has taken our missing books.
Orland: You could find it, Garrett. A thief could find it (trails off)....
Garrett: Her lair? Yeah, I have an idea where it might be.
Orland: Then you must go! Go now and kill her!
Male Keeper 2: If only you could find a way to destroy the Final Glyph, make sure it can never be activated...
Garrett: (sarcastic, reminiscent of a discussion he once had with Viktoria) Let's see if I've got this right. You want me to find Gamall's lair, learn what she wants your treasures for, kill her, AND find and destroy this ‘Final Glyph'? Anything else?
Orland: (rebuilding his pride) How dare you act so high and mighty.
Garrett: Enough speeches, Orland. You've already had your turn.
Female Keeper: Yet there is truth in his words. A sequence of events was started when you stole the Chalice and the Paw. The glyphs did warn us...
Garrett: Right. Glyphs. As if I could forget.
Cutscene artemus_vs_orland:
Garrett: (Dubiously) Artemus. What are you doing *here*?
Artemus/Gamall: (flatly, he's possessed by Gamall) I have figured it all out, Garrett. The artifacts, give them to me. I will show you all the answers.
Garrett: (remaining cool but suspicious) What do you mean, give them to you? Did you find Orland? (more sharply, but concerned) What's *wrong* with you?
Orland: (ragged & a little out of breath) Artemus. (then noting Garrett) And Garrett! I am glad that I caught up with you. (animated) I was... you were right, Artemus. I have lost my balance! Your words kept at me, nagging, even after you had gone. (gesturing, trying to make his epiphany clear) It was the glyphs. Their draw has been too powerful to us. Once we used them to be Keepers of the City. But now what do we keep safe? An empty box, a book of blank pages...
Artemus/Gamall: (flatly) You speak nonsense, Orland.
Orland: (calmer) No, no, you were right. I've been refusing to see. The clock tower, I thought it pointed to me, but it meant all of us. Finally I understand why the glyph prophecies can no longer see into the future.
Artemus/Gamall: (flatly) Return to the Library, Orland, now is not the time.
Orland: The glyphs have become *our* keepers, we can no longer use them to protect our interests... We must tell Garrett the truth.
Artemus/Gamall: (flatly) Orland...
Orland: (to Garrett, almost pleading) Garrett, what we told you...you are the one who must use the artifacts, that much is true. But you are not to *destroy* the Final Glyph. No, you must- (choke! Artemus has turned into Gamall and suddenly her claw is around his neck)
Gamall: Yes, yes, thinking, too clever, but still one step behind. Your Keeper Artemus, convenient to use his form to take the Artifacts from you. His life... mine, mine now. And yours... (drops Orland's body and turns towards Garrett, but his is gone) Where?! No! But no use hiding; a thousand eyes I have to spy after you. No use running, fleeing - a thousand legs at my bidding! I will prevail! I have lived years decades centuries, I will live forever!
jtr7 on 25/3/2008 at 09:54
But before that:
SM3caducamemo: "To: Elders
Regarding: Interpreter Caduca
From: FK Orland
Many have expressed frustration that the process of interpreting the glyphs regarding the Dark Age and the Brethren and Betrayer is taking too long. But be assured, Interpreter Caduca is consulting the books as much as her health allows. It should be said that the constant exposure to the books and the physical act of reading the glyphs has been a terrible strain on her. You will recall that Caduca is one of the younger Interpreters we have had, but already she has spoken of a successor due to the marked aging effect of the readings. For now, Caduca continues to have readings every day and believes she is close to important truths. For further concerns, please see me."
SM3notetoorland: "Orland- Your concerns about allowing Garrett among us are well founded. I too have grave concerns. Could he be the Brethren and Betrayer? If only the glyphs would give up their secrets more readily. Watch him carefully. A thief could do irreparable damage to our situation. We must guard our precious knowledge. C."
KCorland: "Journal of First Keeper Orland
I wonder if Caduca keeps secrets even to herself. Twice, she has sent me a note with instructions, but said nothing in council. But she speaks little beyond prophecy. I am not pleased that the Council allows Garrett back into our midst. He cares nothing for balance, or the knowledge we guard. Even Artemus will rue this decision. I take no joy in being proven right about Garrett, for it resulted in the death of my most trusted colleague. Had I stood more strongly against him, Caduca would not now be dead. And none has the skill to take her place as Interpreter. Gamall is far untrained, but she is all we have. I must make arrangements for her promotion. Another note has arrived in the hand I knew as Caduca's. If it is her - no, that is madness. If not her, then who have I obeyed for so long? Our halls are not safe. I am binding the Keeper Door Glyphs shut so all must pass in full view. The Enforcers have had no luck destroying Garrett - he has learned more of our secrets than we thought.
Tonight, I shall see if I still remember the art of the unseen. If Garrett is in the City, I shall find him, and the Enforcers will finish this. With the Binding Seal still in place and kept safely in my room, no one may enter through the Old Quarter passage. Only when Garrett is dead shall I melt the seal with fire, lest our safety be compromised."
gmh_idle07: "Oh my puppets my pawns my tools oh so stupid and so willing. And Orland the fool the best of them the worst of them. Read my notes Orland read my words Orland draw my glyphs Orland do my work Orland and never never never know (laughs)...."
gmh_idle08: "Stupid little girl stay dead stay buried stay in the past where you were. Shouldn't creep back sneak back come back come talking and fiddling and digging things up and TAKING what I TOOK and is mine now mine not hers not hers now."
Remember the twitching winged statue in the Terces Courtyard cutscene "first_contact", not just the animated statues of the end-game, the one that twitches at Orland's mention of the Hammer- and Pagan-held Artifacts?
gmh_idle05: "Come my creepy crawlies my chicks my stone walkers my eyes my ears my spies come to me and tell me what you see you spy you hear you tell ME...."
In the splinter_group cutscene, the camera cuts to either of two winged statues during the discussion.
Beleg Cúthalion on 25/3/2008 at 14:03
Quote Posted by jtr7
In the game textures, there's an empty skin, reminding me of Michelangelo's self-portrait in the Sistine Chapel:
There are some TDS textures with human skin, half-transparent so that they can be hung somewhere, but I cannot recall on which objects or in which level (possibly Pagan also) they appear.
Now, the most interesting transcript for me would be the one in the TMA cutscene because it also features the brethren and betrayer. But apparently I'm too lazy (and this computer is too slow) to have a research right now. :p I heard that there must be a homepage for it, though.
jtr7 on 25/3/2008 at 16:49
Is this the information you speak of?
The Metal Age Cutscene with the Prophetic Poem, from sailoreagle's transcripts, found (
http://www.kicie.net/misc/scripts.txt) here (and listed in the (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75031#transcript) FAQ):
Keeper1: "By order of the Council of the Keepers, you must come with us. Garrett, be reasonable. Logic dictates--"
Garrett: "Leave."
K1: "But we must--"
G: "Now."
K2: "Has your wealth of knowledge grown so vast, that you've lost all hunger for more? Is there no more trust between us then?"
G: "(sighs) Let's make this fast."
[Prophecy]
My hand is copper.
My brow is lead.
Suffer me in a red patina,
swept along in a molten flow
to a sad eternity.
My stride interrupted
my thoughts untimed
my tears are become drops of silver
and shattered the crystalline fern.
I plead the wind to sweep us away.
(Garrett and the Keeper talk above the following section)
My alabastrine limbs, useless and tired,
my carnelian heart, beatless and mired.
G: "Nice poem."
K1: "Not poetry: prophecy. The Metal Age is upon us."
[Prophecy]
I pick the gilded apple from the iron tree
I wipe the rust from my brow
(Garrett and the Keeper talk above the following section)
The earth rejects me, foul and changed,
the wind refuses me, unsightly and maimed.
My voice is corrupted, my tongue unwind,
my pulse is mercurial sickened, it slows.
G: "Iron trees? Not in my part of town."
K2: "Find the humour if you must. But can you tell me truly Garrett? Are there any trees in your part of town?"
K1: "I will answer for you: there are not."
[Prophecy]
Destiny and danger are stil focused on the one,
the renegade who is both brethen and betrayer.
(Garrett and the Keeper talk above the following section)
Beware the spider, for he weaves both labyrinth and lair.
G: "Well, you've got the danger part right anyway. I'll tell you what: you Keepers can plant a few shrubs about town. I'll take care of me. I'll find my own way home."
K2: "You're a fool! Do you not understand what is at stake?"
K3: "Did you not hear the Interpreter's words?"
K4: "Yes, Keeper Orland (?). He has heard. Don't despair. Let me go after him, alone.
Not to persuade, but to leave the door open between us.
One more moment, if you will, Garrett."
G: "ONE moment."
K4: "You have trouble, my friend. Danger from someone who hired Truart to kill you."
G: "Yes?"
K4: "Then take this. As soon you are done with your business, the sooner you will help us."
G: "Don't count on it."
[Prophecy]
My heart it ceases, my breath undrawn.
My eyes forever focused
on the sanguine metal dawn.
We've gone through the transcripts and have corrected typos and other bigger mistakes we've found at various times, so they should only be considered "good enough", as well as a part of TTLG history.
Beleg Cúthalion on 25/3/2008 at 18:59
Indeed quite bold of Gamall to translate this passage...but who knows which conceptional ideas changed during the making of the three games.
Just for those who collect things like this; the German ending of the last verses:
My heart has fallen silent, my breath disappears.
With your eyes you witness the dawn of the Metal Age.
Of course they rhyme. Thanks for the protocol anyway; they saved a couple of voices in our version (the question about trees in Garrett's quarter and the answer to it are spoken by the very same Keeper), that's why the dialogue always had some inconclusive parts.
