theBlackman on 21/8/2003 at 16:53
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Originally posted by twisted~sister I think Dowol is probably Donal ("Meanest thou the action on Dowol's thugs?"), and Grand Maltin is probably Grand Mauden - it's been quite a long time since I played either game (been too busy with playing FMs :thumb: ), but I'm pretty sure this appears as a mansion on the map in LotP. You are absolutely correct. IT IS DONAL. If all of you will fire up TGOLD and open the maps, in the lower left corner is an arrow with the label: TO DONAL'S
As for the "thieves reward" the request for more lye seems to imply that some type of common open pit grave into which the thieves that were caught and killed were dumped.
The addition of Lye to dissolve the bodies is a common activity. Common in that the carcasses of animals, and unidentified corpses from battlefields of the past were dumped in common graves and treated with lye.
deadman on 21/8/2003 at 20:27
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Originally posted by theBlackman You are absolutely correct. IT IS DONAL. If all of you will fire up TGOLD and open the maps, in the lower left corner is an arrow with the label: TO DONAL'SForgive me, tBm, but I am aware of the name "Lord Donal", the spelling of this name, and wherein it crops up (I have Thief Gold, you know :cheeky:). The only problem is this is part of a conversation between two Hammerites whom don't appear in the Thieves Guild level. Further more, if that weren't enough, the word spoken sounds abso-taffin-lutely nothing like 'Donal'. I know, I've heard it spoken a few different times in my extremely time-intensive project to transcribe everything spoken in the wav files. I have listened to the file Hm1c0902 (the WAV in question) repeatedly within Thief Media Edit and Winamp (meaning I wasn't playing the game at the time; it would be understandable to hear wrongly with all the background noise and possible commotion) and can only come to the conclusion that 1) it is a mysterious figure, one of the few mentioned only once in WAVs, of which there are a few, or 2) the voice actor seriously taffed up his line, which should've been "Donal" instead of what it sounds like.. There is just no 'n' sound that I can make out, and even if what sounds like a 'w' was an 'n', it still wouldn't sound like 'Donal', but more like 'Duhnall'. It's impossible to truly relate the intonation and emphasis though, so I'd suggest going to the snd.crf and extracting that file to have a listen for yourself. Maybe it's a name that's referenced elsewhere entirely and isn't 'Donal' but has a logical reason for existing.
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Hammer #2: Even the Baron doth finally act against evil.. when prodded with enough vigor.
Hammer #1: Meanest thou the action on 'Duh-wall's' thugs? [my attempt at phonetics]
Hammer #2: Verily, some have told me it was his own brethren who, in sin (?), didst turn him in.
Hammer #1:Thieves betray their own. Now as always.Assuming it
is meant to be 'Donal', is there anywhere else documented an 'action', as this Hammerite speaks of, against some of his thugs? Either it's very commonplace and is nothing new or I don't recall any documents.. :weird:
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As for the "thieves reward" the request for more lye seems to imply that some type of common open pit grave into which the thieves that were caught and killed were dumped.Ahh, I knew I was right. I swear my mind went blank, but you've just helped trigger my memory of what lye was used for back then :laff:. Still, it almost unsettles me. Either they weren't resting peacefully (turned into zombies?) or were buried alive, from what I gather of moans and talk of unrepentant not lying easy. Maybe it's just a melodramatic stretch of the imagination.
Cheers for the thoughts,
deadman.
jtr7 on 21/8/2003 at 20:30
Okay, I’ve edited my profile to allow Private Messaging and E-Mail.
Thanks for your offer, theBlackman. I'll PM you shortly.
Deadman, my impression is that "Thieves' Reward" is indeed a place meant to trap and kill thieves, but that could be several places within the bonehoard! If I had to make a first guess, I'd look for a special trap near the Quintus family tomb. :erg:
I think a poll is in order now so we'd have less restructuring to do than we will later. I only have MS Word for my list, but it has more formats to save a file in.
THIS JUST IN: Are we talking about a "Duwall," perhaps?
theBlackman on 21/8/2003 at 20:32
Given that many "accents" were attempted in the Sound files for the characters, it is possible that a heavy accent that swallowed the "n" or otherwise gave it a dialectical pronounciation, I still suspect that it is Donal.
Your arguement has merit, but in the main the sound files do parallel the theme and written material that crops up.
deadman on 22/8/2003 at 00:04
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Originally posted by theBlackman Given that many "accents" were attempted in the Sound files for the characters, it is possible that a heavy accent that swallowed the "n" or otherwise gave it a dialectical pronounciation, I still suspect that it is Donal.This may as yet be the case, tBm, but I'm sticking to my guns! Seriously, I can understand differing pronounciations, but in each case of the spoken "Donal", it's sounded exactly the same.. 'Dawn-uhl', while in one case it's 'Da-wall' (another phonetic spelling)?
But perhaps we won't have to argue about this further. jtr7 has just sent me a PM mentioning a name 'Duwall', which may be the lead I've been looking for. Knowing me, it's probably been on my list and I've just never made the connection with spelling and sound, although who knows, maybe he got it from the WAV too :eww:.
You didn't listen to the WAV, did you? :joke: Please try it at least; it is quite clear to me that such differences beyond mere 'accent' exist which basically make it clear it wasn't meant as 'Donal'. I would compare it to someone who has a thick foreign accent saying an English word, or vice versa. And I hardly doubt this voice-actor was suddenly stricken by a strong blow of this trait saying that one word..
Anyway, I'm god here, so what I say goes :laff:.
Be it so ordered, (now I'm starting to sound like Truart :tsktsk:)
deadman.... Truart!theBlackman on 22/8/2003 at 07:49
It seems that the sound wave is as you say. I found this to verify the "ear" you were using. :D
UNDERCOVER
People Mentioned:
Brother Dale, High Priest Markander, Brother Satchelman,
Brother Mason, St. Yora, Terrence, Nolman, Father Tennor,
Brother Terrence, Father Theol, Brother Wainwright, Dolan,
DeWall
A thief named Dewall has been captured by The Baron's guards after being
turned in by a fellow thief.
Good call. It seems the rest of us were hearing something else, but then we all seem to hear or see what we expect or desire.
I apologize.
deadman on 22/8/2003 at 16:34
Bah! It is my fault for not having seen this previously. Where did you get the name/info? One seemingly imagined I went through all the texts in all levels, but this obviously is wrong if I didn't catch it :confused:.
Also, it isn't that you were hearing something else, it's just that logic told you it was probably 'Donal' because of circumstantial evidence for this being likely.. And we all know it's much easier to give in to the possibility of an easy connection even when it seems a stretch for it to be made.
I was wrong about the 'Mervids' quote, but then again Stephen Russell slurs those words together so quickly [/excuse-O-matic] and it's very likely I'm wrong in other cases, but I refused to think 'Dewall' was meant as 'Donal'.
Thanks for clearing that up. You still must tell me where you got it from!
Cheers,
deadman.
jtr7 on 22/8/2003 at 21:46
Awright, theBlackman! I thank you as well. We now have the definitive spelling and TWO sources that work together to further enrich the Thief universe.:D
Okay, guys, it looks as though my opportunity to dig into the CD's is going to happen. I won't be able to play the games, but I should be able to access waves, movies, and text. I should be able to add to my personal collection the added materials of Thief Gold. I have borrowed TDP & Gold and TMA from a friend. My computer cannot play the games, >sigh< but I can grab info.
Deadman, I know what I want personally but what do WE need for the project? I don't want to duplicate your work. I'll look above at the previous postings to see what you've already suggested I do for my share at this time.
Moving right along...
deadman on 22/8/2003 at 22:46
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Originally posted by jtr7 Deadman, I know what I want personally but what do WE need for the project? I don't want to duplicate your work. I'll look above at the previous postings to see what you've already suggested I do for my share at this time.
Moving right along... Well, assuming life permits such, it would seem logical to split the names via level (it could get a bit hairy with names that are mentioned more than once; making regular interaction between us a must), giving you and I half of the workload. From there it can be tweaked or messed with depending on who is more busy than the other and other variables. Maybe there's a better way though. I've begun on 'Assassins' (haven't worked on it in the past 2-3 days as I'm trying to get ready for college :() if that's any help. Also, remember I gave you 'permission' (as if it were required) to re-write or come up with your own descriptions for characters such as Basso, Cutty, Victoria, Ramirez, et al. I'll do my best, though my descriptions of these characters may be lacking and all-too matter-of-fact in nature. We could present weekly 'progress reports' to each other to have a firm grip of where we're going and, if we adopt the method I imagined above, give a list of names we've both completed so the other won't wastefully come up with repeats in their list. I don't know that it's key each entry is somehow distinguished by author (it may be obvious enough to readers as it is) but I'd still include a footnote or asterisk about those only appearing in WAVs. All stuff I've said before, no doubt, but it comes to mind. I don't know how multiple aliases should be handled. So far I've just had a note at the end about other names someone's been referred to as. I have been known in the past to abandon or lose passion momentarily for projects such as this; I only hope knowing someone else is working on it and we will be helping future FM and fanfiction authors with our efforts will keep me on task (and that it doesn't interfere with my studies or vice versa) :erg:.
Looking at Brother Renault's synopsis of Thief Gold, I'd wager he too got the name "Dewall" from the audio file and not any text. Still, it at least shows someone else agrees it wasn't in any way meant as "Donal", and gives me renewed confidence on my position. I guess we'll have to choose a spelling we think fits and then include another footnote.
Cheers,
deadman.
theBlackman on 23/8/2003 at 01:38
De soto, De walt, D' Arcy, etc. The DUH or DEH sound is the common pronunciation for D' or De. So De Wall seems a good choice or compromise.
