All this detail.. to what means? - by Scott Weiland
Muzman on 16/5/2010 at 02:01
And now furry pick up lines.
I'm going to back to the start and see if I can work out what this thread is about.
Ko0K on 16/5/2010 at 02:01
Hey, let me borrow this really quick.
(edit) FYI, that's for you not getting my tail between your legs comment.
june gloom on 16/5/2010 at 02:07
Oh I understood it perfectly. I just twisted it around for a cheap insult. Nice job missing that.
This thread was a lot better before you started shitting in it. I mean, it was pretty bad to begin with but it's just terrible now. I think I'll go do something more productive.
PS: Get out.
EvaUnit02 on 16/5/2010 at 02:13
Quote Posted by Ko0K
Whether recent games focus excessively on visual details may be up for debate, but for those who grew up on the likes of SS2, the newer and prettier games feel as though they lack substance. I never made the claim that wasn't anything more than how I perceived the trend.
Quote Posted by dethtoll
As someone who grew up with a bevy of "hardcore" "oldschool" games I find this statement to be patently bullshit. Stop living up to your username and get out.
The point was that absolutist generalisations like this are usually false. It's definitely the case here, they're are plenty of people who played TTLG-ish games like Thief and SS2 don't believe that all newer games with a strong emphasis on graphics lack in substance.
Namdrol's Stalker example is definitely one of them. I'll throw Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines into the mix. It utilised the then brand new Source engine, it was one of the first games to do so.
Ko0K on 16/5/2010 at 02:24
I don't dispute the fact that I made a broad generalization, which is why I felt the need to be more specific as to what I meant:
Quote Posted by Ko0K
I don't have a specific example as to which games seem excessively focused on visuals while lacking in substance, but the categories I had in mind are movie tie-ins and many serial sports games that cater to the market represented by younger gamers who call each other 'nigger' on XBL. I hope that's less amorphous.
Look, I personally think that most games that were well received here are exempt from the 'newer and prettier' games.
(edit) Dead horse, agreed?
Zygoptera on 16/5/2010 at 02:27
In any case SS2 was not a flop, it made its money back (probably roughly doubled its investment) and then some which is more than most games can say. (
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action/tree/browse_frm/thread/a45954b1cf46f3bd/0f07f8aaf68a13bb?rnum=21&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fcomp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2Fa45954b1cf46f3bd%2F7861f82d3b27b6cf%3Flnk%3Dst%26q%3D%26#doc_ed4af20e30ee4026) Link1 (
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action/tree/browse_frm/thread/ca5f15c37664e137/215938c488ab2ed8?rnum=1&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fcomp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2Fca5f15c37664e137%2F40ae9d27a39fbcd3%3Flnk%3Dst%26q%3D%26#doc_e864d3db94e4e52f) Link2 and remembering it was released when around 100k sales was break even point, ie it was successful so long as we don't define success as shifting GTA or HL like numbers, a case in which maybe two-three games a year would be successful.
-----cut here if you're not interested in a master class of how to "win" an internet argument-----
Quote Posted by Sulphur
Zygo, your problem is that you think the argument is about 'AAA' games. It isn't. The comment that sparked this off was generalised to include ALL of today's games.
Direct quotes "..the so-called '
graphical arms race' takes place these days because there happens to be a demand for it..", by KooK, and (direct quote) "It is of course a
lot less relevant for indies or more limited release ones." by me. Sorry, but even under the most generous definition I can muster neither of those refers to anything other than AAA or "graphical arms race" titles.
The only way your comment works is if you're still fixated on the OP. And ignore the direct quote "
It is expensive to make them" which implies very strongly that lower budget titles- indies and such- are excluded, from the very first post in the thread.
Quote:
Your assumption is that because a game has pretty graphics, it's AAA, which is an amazingly narrowminded and flawed viewpoint to say the least.
Yes, and that's why I said The Void (albeit initially miswritten, but clarified in the next post) had good graphics but was not AAA, and said that, direct quote, "
art direction is probably more important in a good looking game than technicals like multiple shaders bump mapping normal mapping film grain bloom etc" in my very first post in this thread.
Quote:
If you want to argue assertions that exist solely in your head and that don't bear much relevance to the topic at hand, go ahead.
Irony, it's what puts creaseys etc etc
Quote:
And by the by, thanks for the critical analysis of my argumentation skills.
No problems, glad to be of service, hope to see an improvement soon.
Quote:
You'll forgive me if I don't think too highly of it, given you're hardly what we'd call an accomplished and objective debater yourself.
I've provided the quotes showing that you are wrong and have based what you have been saying on nothing anyone else has actually said.
Going by dethtoll's handy chart that makes for "truth". You, well, it's the other option at present by the look of things.
Sulphur on 16/5/2010 at 03:20
Oh, please. Firstly, the 'graphical arms race' is irrelevant when you factor indies into the equation, which is what your man Ko0K didn't do. Secondly, indies were not the only examples I quoted. You've very conveniently discounted the Wii and everything else apart from indies that I've quoted in subsequent posts.
So fixate on the 'graphical arms race' bit, why don't you. That doesn't change the fact that the observation we're discussing was that, somehow in the past, 'AAA' games were 'more innovative' in gameplay. They weren't, not any more than they are today. That's the point.
If you don't get why the reasoning behind that observation is wrong, you might as well run your 'master class for winning an argument' at a school for speshul children. Hell, you could be the freaking headmaster.
Eldron on 16/5/2010 at 08:53
So have we come to a conclusion yet or is this still an arena filled with kids running around a lawn full of old farts with canes?
Sulphur on 16/5/2010 at 09:07
rampant corporal punishment ITT :(
in someone else's head, that is. it's not in my list of fetishes.
Chade on 16/5/2010 at 22:05
The original discussion was (roughly) about whether the industry has gotten more graphics-obsessed/derivative over time.
Talking about SS2 and Thief, noted at the time for being jewels in a sea of mediocrity, does nothing to advance this argument.
