An idea for pleasing the fans and pleasing the new blood.

SubJeff on 17/5/2009 at 00:25

I've hashed together all of my ideas about what makes a good Thief game (thanks for saying so much re: the gameworld fett) and stuck it in a blog post.

Its a long read but I think I've covered most things and importantly I've made suggestions that, if implemented, would/could please both the hardcore Thief fans and more casual gamers.

(http://subjectiveeffect.blogspot.com/)

Comments welcome.

Edit: Added the garrote I meant to put in in the first place!

addone on 17/5/2009 at 01:15

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

I thought it was a good read. Eidos-Montreal should definitely read it and consider it. You should add to the crossbow section the fact that the crossbow could also have a better zoom (though that could be a little too modern).

And the mushrooms, it'd be good to also have a little bit of randomness and unexpectedness with them. Say, each time could be different and just randomized. And maybe the alter whether you think it should actually be right to take it or not, say you may get an effect from it which would be bad...slowing you down and so on, likewise, the guards could be getting a beneficial effect. Maybe the actual dosage could alter it, stack the mushroom effect, if you take 2 at once, the effect would be stronger than if you only took one or maybe last longer. Possibly even change in the middle of using it. Maybe it could change between the effects just getting weaker as they wear off and playing then having them just stop.

As you can tell, I love this mushroom idea :P It'd make things a bit more tactical. You should mention the interface of the games as well, and how the inventory works. Where you simply have the 'use' button. And you press it and the item is used. Nothing else. Say with the mushrooms, you want two doses, you just press the button twice. And no icon should come up in the corner saying how long the effect is lasting or what the effect is - like Oblivion. It's bad and also ruins the immersion... along with pressing the 'use' button and having a little button pop up asking you how many you want to use. It's important EM get that, REALLY important, it'd spoil things.

I always found part of the fun/frustration of Thief was having the wrong inventory item clicked or accidently pressing the 'use' button twice really fast, and wasting another health potion or accidently dropping two flash bombs :P

driver on 17/5/2009 at 01:35

Quick question on the crossbow/zipline thing. I take it this would work like a rope arrow (ie, barbed headed arrow/bolt fired into wooden surface) but how would you go about securing the player's end? It seems that it would have a very limited use, one that could only be used at certain points, as opposed to the rope arrow which, while there were obvious points of use, it was really up to the player when and where it could be used.

Reliance on 17/5/2009 at 01:38

Quote Posted by driver

It could work as a 2-shot technique. Shoot one in into wood/wall/crate behind you and *reload another arrow with the same rope attached*, the shoot that into wood/wall/crate across from you.

I don't know if I'm in total support of the crossbow thing, but hey, if I don't like it I won't use it.

As to your second point I believe the rope arrows would still be included.
Perhaps like
crossbow = zipline
Longbow = "Normal" rope arrow.

addone on 17/5/2009 at 01:46

A grappling hook could be pretty cool. Also, with rope arrows/grappling hook, the option to pull things from a distance towards you. Of course, to balance things, doing this could be very noisy and attract a lot of attention. Also, if you hit a guard from a distance with an arrow and kill him. You could use the grappling hook/rope arrow to pull his body towards you without having to run up. Especially useful if it's a guard on a balcony.

Another thing, if a guard is standing in front of a torch and you shoot a water arrow at it. He should notice it. You should need to think about WHEN to shoot the water arrow. If a guard is walking towards one and an arrow flies past his face and there's a splash of water and the torch is out, obviously he's gonna know something happened.. But say if he's around a corner/out of hearing range, and the torch goes out, it'll seem less suspicious.

Tannar on 17/5/2009 at 02:20

Subjective Effect - That was an interesting read. I'm not sure I agree with every little thing, especially regarding weapons, but overall I think you've hit on some very important points (certainly the main points of the gameplay mechanics) and laid it out nicely.

I did notice I couple of things that I thought I would call to your attention in case you are interested. First, in the first sentence after the weapons table, you wrote:

[INDENT]"Now I'm saying that these specific tools should be in the game..."[/INDENT]

Did you mean to say the following?:

[INDENT]"Now I'm not saying that these specific tools should be in the game..."[/INDENT]

Second, you wrote:

[INDENT]"Stealth in darkness, the level of which is determined by exposure to light sources..."[/INDENT]

I might add:

[INDENT]"...as well as whether you are standing or crouched, whether or not you have a weapon drawn and the speed at which you are traveling..."[/INDENT]

Third, in the T3 mechanics section you didn't mention that Garrett has forgotten how to swim (though you do call attention to that in the next paragraph).

driver on 17/5/2009 at 02:44

Quote Posted by Reliance

It could work as a 2-shot technique. Shoot one in into wood/wall/crate behind you and *reload another arrow with the same rope attached*, the shoot that into wood/wall/crate across from you.

That creates the problem of the player holding a rope before s/he fires the second shot. Do you limit the players movement whilst holding the rope (Can't move beyond a certain distance due to the length of the rope), or is the rope 'lost' if the player moves?

BTW, I wasn't suggesting that the zipline would replace rope arrows. Rope arrows are part of what makes Thief great, who would be stupid enough to make a Thief game without them?

...oh.

Stath MIA on 17/5/2009 at 03:00

Really liked and agreed with most of your points, it's a good way to keep Thief the way we want it while allowing EM to appeal to the broader market.
Here's an idea for the zip line, have it initially fire as a regular rope arrow and then frob the rope to allow for firing the second end, but only allow for frobbing it if you have the crossbow.

SubJeff on 17/5/2009 at 04:02

Thanks for the feedback everyone :thumb:

Quote Posted by driver

I hadn't decided how you would fix it. Either with a 2 shot technique (that had indeed crossed my mind) or with a second anchoring function of the bow that you can activate if you are right next to a wooden fixing point and have a rope arrow equipped. I realise the use would be limited but where it's possible it would be very useful - like getting from one side of a room to another without touching the floor, or being above the guards. And yes, you would have the option to use it as a regular rope arrow or a zip line. I've edited the blog to make that clearer.

Tanner - Yes you're right, I meant "Now I'm not saying that these specific tools should be in the game..."
I've edited it now.

How did the lack of swimming get lost? Must've happened when I transferred it from Word and had to redo the html for the lists! Fixed, thanks.

bukary on 17/5/2009 at 08:54

I think you should post the link to your blog in EM forums... if you haven't done that already.