An idea for pleasing the fans and pleasing the new blood. - by SubJeff
nickie on 19/5/2009 at 17:22
Thanks SE - I can now see, at least on my old pc. :)
TTK12G3 on 19/5/2009 at 18:01
Quote Posted by FriendlyStranger
proposal rejected *g*
I think that restricts the player too much. The score idea limits you in your freedom how to play the game - while the normal, hard, expert just adds challenges.
I strongly disagree. If anything, it gives more freedom and encourages the player to play better. Meeting the bare minimum requirements and moving on to the next level tells the player that they did all they could do. A score, on the other hand, would let the player know exactly how they fared by "professional standards".
FriendlyStranger on 19/5/2009 at 20:04
Quote Posted by TTK12G3
I strongly disagree. If anything, it gives more freedom and encourages the player to play better. Meeting the bare minimum requirements and moving on to the next level tells the player that they did all they could do. A score, on the other hand, would let the player know exactly how they fared by "professional standards".
No because: With the Normal/Hard/Expert Setting there is no moral judgement on your actions - its just not allowed to kill in Hard, Expert. But when you got the score there is always judgement on your actions - it takes away freedom from you by saying - you killed someone, you played bad. Whereas in Normal mode T1,2 no one told you you played bad/wrong by kilkling someone--> more freedom.
TTK12G3 on 19/5/2009 at 21:48
Quote Posted by FriendlyStranger
No because: With the Normal/Hard/Expert Setting there is no moral judgement on your actions - its just not allowed to kill in Hard, Expert. But when you got the score there is always judgement on your actions - it takes away freedom from you by saying - you killed someone, you played bad. Whereas in Normal mode T1,2 no one told you you played bad/wrong by kilkling someone--> more freedom.
It's not as much about killing being morally wrong as much as it is being a royal screw-up. If we're talking about giving that much freedom, why not have the option of just bringing in a hand-cannon or a six-barreled arrow launcher? This is Thief, not Bloody Spastic Murder XXVIII.
TheivingME on 19/5/2009 at 22:30
Quote Posted by gunsmoke
I want options TheBlackman. Sometimes, I like to go on a rampage in Thief just for a kick. Sometimes I like to Ghost. Sometimes, I like a little of both. It depends on the situation and my mood. I don't save in-mission. I always played Thief as a one-shot-at-glory game. So, I have to do what I have to do in-mission, and sometimes it comes down to their life or mine.
To each their own, but I think options are NEVER a bad thing. That is why they are called OPTIONS. They are OPTIONAL.
Damn right.
I nearly always set the difficulty to hard just so I can set up a really good stealthy longbow shot which I think will look really cool. Others times i'll just sneak past the guy. Removing killing options, just like making it to 'killy' will ruin the game.
Taffer36 on 19/5/2009 at 22:32
How about this:
Make crossbow bolts more rare than typical arrows for a longbow. SHAZAM! If a guard is carrying a longbow then you can't just take the broadheads from it and load them into your crossbow, and vice versa.
This way, you can directly limit the amount of standard killing bolts you give the crossbow each mission. And you make them a touch more expensive than regular broadheads in the pre-mission shop, because they do more damage in the crossbow anyways.
Also...
Quote Posted by theBlackman
The gaming world is full of games where "kill it if it moves" is the object. Why crap up a good game to make it "more attractive" to those players.
If they want that crap, it's there. THIEF does not need to be brought down to that level of juvenile entertainment.
Your point is really, MAKE THE GAME FIT THE PATTERN OF EVERY OTHER GAME AND GIVE THE CHILDREN LOTS OF BFG AND BLOOD.
As others have already pointed out, it's about giving the player options. But here's what you do to keep things balanced: 1) like I said above, you limit the amount of lethal ammo players get, so it's more difficult. The more lethal the weapon (i.e. crossbow compared to longbow) the more you limit it. 2) You make the AI highly skilled at combat. The player shouldn't easily be able to face-off with a trained enemy archer, if the player truly wants to kill they're going to have to have a challenge that is more so than simply sneaking, so by logic you make sneaking the more favorable option.
And we need to stop this nonsense. Stop thinking you're somehow better than everyone else because you enjoy a game that involves more sneaking than a game that involves more killing. It's an arbitrary measurement for the "intelligence" of your form of entertainment and it doesn't give you a right to call all other forms juvenile.
theBlackman on 19/5/2009 at 22:37
Quote Posted by TheivingME
Damn right.
[...]Removing killing options, just like making it to 'killy' will ruin the game.
Nothing was said about "Removing" killing options. The option is there but, if you can't handle it with the tools you have, then don't play the game.
You can set a mine and explode it with a broadhead. You can slide a mine right into a crowd, and let them do it or use a broadhead.
You can move a barrel of powder and explode it with a FLARE, you can use many of your tools to "kill". More and better such tools are really "Less", in terms of game play.
The game depends on YOU thinking it through. Not a magic bullet, arrow, or BFG.
SubJeff on 19/5/2009 at 23:21
I think it best you stop talking about BFGs as no one has mentioned it and you're not even trying.
theBlackman on 19/5/2009 at 23:51
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
I think it best you stop talking about BFGs as no one has mentioned it and you're not even trying.
In effect the options being suggested too often equate to the same.
Stath MIA on 20/5/2009 at 00:27
Quote Posted by theBlackman
Nothing was said about "Removing" killing options. The option is there but, if you can't handle it with the tools you have, then don't play the game.
You can set a mine and explode it with a broadhead. You can slide a mine right into a crowd, and let them do it or use a broadhead.
You can move a barrel of powder and explode it with a FLARE, you can use many of your tools to "kill". More and better such tools are really "Less", in terms of game play.
The game depends on YOU thinking it through. Not a magic bullet, arrow, or BFG.
Are you really
this intimidated by change? If any of this new stuff is added in, I guarantee you that SE isn't going to come and and hold a knife (or garotte :cheeky:) to your throat to force you to use them. I won't be going around randomly killing everyone (usually:sly:), it's just an option for newbies which will,
hopefully, lead to them becoming stealthy.
@TTK12G3- Nah, it implies that one playstyle is the "correct" one, the beauty of Thief is that, under loose constraints, you can play the way you want.
