An idea for pleasing the fans and pleasing the new blood. - by SubJeff
Taffer36 on 20/5/2009 at 00:39
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
I think it best you stop talking about BFGs as no one has mentioned it and you're not even trying.
Basically, his last argument here is that the crossbow somehow makes killing more simple than tossing a mine into a crowd. Or, I guess, not that one is easier than the other (because the concept that the player could take their crossbow and a handful of bolts and take down a whole crowd of guards easily is ridiculous) that it doesn't take as much work for the player, whereas throwing a mine into a crowd and firing one arrow into it takes more work/more thought.
The obvious response is that it's bull. The only difference I really tend to see between these two is that 1) throwing the mine or an exploding barrel into a crowd would probably be easier, and 2) the other solutions are currently in Thief, and therefore are being defended although they fail against his previous qualifications for this game.
And as I've stated a minute ago, if the number of lethal bolts a player has access to is limited, it will directly limit the ability to go on a mass killing spree anyways. Not to mention the NON-LETHAL purposes of the crossbow, already explained by SE.
Not that everyone's defending the concept of a crossbow because it's a necessity or anything; it's not at all. But the arguments AGAINST it just don't make any sense to me.
DarkThiefsie on 20/5/2009 at 05:53
Garrett already has fire arrows and I don't even use them even if I have them unless I can find a good purpose for it.
If I were given a mine, I wouldn't use it unless I could find a good purpose for it.
A crossbow could be pretty cool but it would be kinda pointless. Garrett TRAINED with a bow and he is really, really good at it. Why would he want a crossbow now? Garrett can and has done amazing feats with his bow (as you and I know). It's like replacing garretts trusty blackjack with a knockout potion and rag.
Also, the game must be simple enough to pick up. In Thief 2, currently the keys are:
(1) Sword
(2) Blackjack
(3) Broadhead
(4) Water arrow
(5) Moss arrow
(6) Fire arrow
(9?) Noisemaker
I don't think a cross bow could fit in there too well unless you have an inventory system.
In terms of other equipment, I wouldn't mind see throwing knives etc etc. For example, throwing knives can be used to knock out enemies from a distance or, if possible, pin an enemy against a wall while you get away (!). It could also be used if you get disarmed (if you get disarmed while trying to fight with a sword). It's also a fairly clumsy weapon - if you miss, it'll make a lot of noise (unless it hits grass or something) and if you hit, it'll still make alot of noise (unless you can hit the neck or cut the rope you were aiming for).
But I can't think of Garrett needing any more than what he already has.
EDIT:
I knew I forgot something
GAS arrow and VINE arrow, though I Can't remember what keys they are.
SubJeff on 20/5/2009 at 07:22
This is bizarre.
The point of the MINI crossbow (a full size one would be too bulky and would have more power than the longbow) is MORE stealth!
Less use of offensive arrows, broadheads should do less damage unless its a head/neck shot, and it would take 2 to 3 times longer to reload than the longbow.
DarkThiefsie on 20/5/2009 at 08:41
Garrett is the greatest thief in the WORLD. He is plenty stealthy with his bow and his broadsword. A mini crossbow is simply extra baggage he doesn't need. If the player gets caught, it is the player's fault - not Garretts. The player simply needs to improve and play smartly.
He doesn't NEED a Crossbow, MINI or not.
He is super awesome with the bow he already has.
SubJeff on 20/5/2009 at 09:11
It isn't a question of character need ffs, its about providing pragmatic options. If you don't want it don't use it. And it'd hardly be baggage if its lighter than the bow.
FriendlyStranger on 20/5/2009 at 10:16
Quote Posted by Stath MIA
@TTK12G3- Nah, it implies that one playstyle is the "correct" one, the beauty of Thief is that, under loose constraints, you can play the way you want.
exactly what I was going to reply...
@ What I could imagine besides a crossbow is a new arrow type: In Gothic 3 (although an abysmal game) they implented a funny feature - it was an arrow with a round head, which if you managed to hit the head, knocked out the enemy - some kind of "remote blackjack".
You could implement it as a cheaper version of the gas arrow.
TTK12G3 on 20/5/2009 at 14:09
Quote Posted by Stath MIA
@TTK12G3- Nah, it implies that one playstyle is the "correct" one, the beauty of Thief is that, under loose constraints, you can play the way you want.
I still think there *is* a correct way to play, but I guess shooting an arrow through someone's throat is too tempting. :confused:
pavlovscat on 20/5/2009 at 16:54
Stealth is my preference, but, especially back when I was still working, I confess to coming home ticked off more than a few times to wreak havoc & commit wholesale slaughter - everyone dies...people, spiders, burricks, rats!! Though I have to admit it was much more fun to chase around and beat every chicken to death with my crowbar in Redneck Rampage. :tsktsk::cheeky:
Sometimes I just like to fool around and break the 'rules'. I'm very comfortable with the Thief games, and it's not as if that is my normal playing style. It's just something I get a kick out of doing once in a while.
Tail on 20/5/2009 at 17:29
The Garrotte breaks some of the design of Thief in that it's the only way to kill silently, thus lacking the same discouragement that using arrows or the sword would. More importantly, it's also the only weapon designed specifically to /kill humans/. Don't overlook the fact there are non-human things which a sword and arrow are effective against.
I'd have throwing knives as, basically, a short-distance broadhead. But without zoom and a very short "firing delay", and also travelling a fixed distance (so not that much like a broadhead arrow then). I think they'd sit nicely inbetween the bow and sword this way. They'd be great for quick enemies. I can imagine pinning a spider to a wall with them as it scurried towards me.
If you wall run for 3-4 steps, couldn't you just jump? I would have the jumping up the walls to reach the top as a standard move though. That would be a nice addition, it's also nice because a guard in armour wouldn't even think of attempting it, an ideal escape move.
Neb on 20/5/2009 at 18:17
Since the PS3 and XBOX have those achievement thingies, then wouldn't it be lovely and mean to have plenty which involve pure ghosting?
Muhahaha.
No, seriously though. It might give new players an idea of how a lot of us have loved the series so far.
