An idea for pleasing the fans and pleasing the new blood. - by SubJeff
Tail on 20/5/2009 at 18:23
That means ghosting would be designed into the level. And knowing it's possible removes half the fun!
Neb on 20/5/2009 at 18:35
Ahhh, I see what you're saying.
At least they could get an achievement which involves no unnecessary killing or knock-outs.
SubJeff on 20/5/2009 at 18:51
Quote Posted by Tail
The Garrotte... ...the only weapon designed specifically to /kill humans/. Don't overlook the fact there are non-human things which a sword and arrow are effective against.
And why wouldn't a garrote kill non-humans? Not undead, but rat/ape beasts and the like? And perhaps humans who have to be killed/are allowed to be killed for mission reasons.
The garrote takes longer to kill than any other weapon since you have to yank it for some time. It also would produce much more blood than a backstab or arrow, requiring at least 2 water arrows to clean.
In addition - NOT EVERYONE PLAYS ON EXPERT.
This is about
widening the audience.
No one is
making you use it, just like no one makes you use a fire arrow, a broadhead, a mine or any of the bladed weapons to kill.
Oh, and add caltrops to the list. Slow enemies, injure a little and can be poisoned.
Tail on 20/5/2009 at 20:45
The discouragement from killing is constant throughout every difficulty level. Expert simply punishes you for it too.
Stabbing somebody results in a loud noise, blood, body. Arrows are the same. Mines, fire arrows... everything that kills creates a noise to alert other AI to your presence and, theoretically, puts you in more danger than you were before. It's subtly training the player to be a better thief.
I concede on rat/ape beasts. But still, I see a garrotte as created for the more specific purpose of killing people. Swords and arrows are multi-purpose, spider, burrick, undead, treebeast killers, which just happen to kill people too. And also door-bashers and long range switch/lever frobbers.
I do see your point and what your intentions are. I just think a garrotte is a bad choice to balance properly (it'll either be too good, or not worth the hassle).
Anyway, this is probably far too many words for what's a relatively minor thing.
After we have a wider audience, we need to train them. :)
SubJeff on 20/5/2009 at 22:59
Tbh with you, the garrote (and all of this) are only suggestions.
As long as the core gameplay remains the same, EM can add whatever they want - provided it doesn't break the game if you want to play it oldskool.
And THAT was the point all along.
DarkThiefsie on 20/5/2009 at 23:07
I understand what you mean about providing options and I guess from a gameplay point of view a mini-cross bow, garrotte etc may spice things up abit...
I guess it boils down to how players want to play garrett. If, like us, we seem him as an honorable thief etc, we wouldn't use the mini-crossbow/garrotte even if they provided us with one. Hell, I don't even use my broadsword (except for cutting stuff - DRAPES), or my broadheads or fire arrows - preferring to sneak pass.
I guess it would be stupid, in this era anyway, to limit what how garrett should be played. I guess it isn't that Garrett doesn't need a crossbow, but I don't need one. BUt the option is there, i guess, and if enemies are sufficiently hard enough it may turn out to be a viable alternative if you get caught. A crossbow may not cause enough damage, but if it is accurate and fast to fire (not reload) you could, for example, use it to cut a rope holding up a a vat of oil (in a hammerite place or something), thus blocking rite of passage.
A bit of a flip-flop, I know, but I guess I wasn't thinking too deeply in my previous post.
TTK12G3 on 21/5/2009 at 00:46
Quote Posted by Tail
After we have a wider audience, we need to train them. :)
Punishing the ESPLOZSHIONS demographic without them noticing? I like where this is going...
TheivingME on 21/5/2009 at 01:23
garrett is definately not an honourable thief. The last thing I want is for T4 to romantacise him in that way.
He is shown to kill in the begining of T2. Hes a pragmatist.
DarkThiefsie on 21/5/2009 at 01:46
I guess honourable is a loose term in the city.
SubJeff on 21/5/2009 at 11:45
I really don't get this honour thing. Garrett is a thief and as such is, in fact, a Criminal. He has no honor. Sniping with an arrow or back stabbing is just as dishonourable as any other method. They are all surprise attacks.
I think some of those who play on Expert are having a bit of tunnel vision. Don't forget that killing in theif IS allowed. Let's not be elitist. I play only on expert and I'm not being so.
