Renzatic on 24/7/2018 at 06:30
Quote Posted by Starker
Yeah, and ironically this is what you end up with trying to avoid "communism"
That's pretty much the root of the paranoia infecting America today. Some Other trying to take away our freedoms, our way of life. Be it the communists lurking about in Hollywood, the Islamic terrorist plotting in every mosque across the US, or the illegal immigrants bringing their crime and diseases across the border, the wholesomeness of apple pie, capitalism, and good ole fashioned Americana hangs by a thread, ever threatened, ever in danger. We can never rest, never make compromises, lest the enemy gets a foot in the door.
Donald Trump's brand of politics is the paranoia of neoconservatism jacked up to 11, focused on our neighbors, rather than abroad.
uncadonego on 24/7/2018 at 10:29
Quote Posted by Renzatic
The weirdest thing I see from the hardcore Trump line is their base assumption that he's acting like any other president.
See, under normal circumstances, you'd be right. Trump had no obligation to confront Putin over his meddling. Had no obligation to denounce Russia on live TV. If he kept mum on the subject, allowing political business to proceed as usual, the discussion we'd be having now would be quite different.
But we both know that isn't what Trump did. He practically fell on his knees, and verbally felated Putin there in front of everyone after his meeting in Helsinki. He didn't play his cards close to his chest, playing up the positives while bypassing the negatives. He openly endorsed Putin's word over that of his DOJ, his CIA, his FBI, his Senate, his House, showing the world just how quickly he's willing to throw the government he heads under the bus for the benefit of a foreign leader alleged to have illegally interfered in our domestic issues.
...of course he's since backtracked on that statement, saying that, yes, he did say Putin interfered, he just mistakenly mumbled the wrong word at the wrong time.
...then backtracked from that statement, returning to the tried and true witch-hunt no-interference narrative, turning the usual dog and pony show up a notch in the process as you so helpfully illustrated in your video above.
Such BS was his weak retraction. He ended that press briefing with the words :"TOTAL WITCH HUNT"
Gryzemuis on 24/7/2018 at 11:50
Quote Posted by Starker
What I don't get is how "socialist left" is still such a dirty word in the US in 2018.
I think this is not a coincidence.
When you look at American culture, the story is always about a lone hero against a large evil majority. One cowboy fighting all the Indians. Or fighting Henry Fonda's crooked gang. Bruce Willis on his own against the terrorists. Rambo wasn't part of an army. Indiana Jones didn't work for a university. Han Solo didn't work for a transportation company. Dirty Harry worked for the police, but he was barely accepted there. Most of the Marvel superheroes stand outside society. The main characters in American novels are not much different.
The idea is that people who are organized suck. They are uninspiring. They are sheeple. They can't be heroes. They don't matter. The only real way to live the American way, is to be a loner ! Fight on your own. Against the big evil villain. Or against the big evil corporation. That's what gets the respect of the average American.
Of course this is unrelated to the truth. Winners today are very well organized. They have their corporations to help them fight. Just fight for themselves of course, never fight for a better world. That's not American. You have to be egoistical. Winner takes all. The winners have their corporations, with their lobbyist, their lawyers, their thousands of employees. They are not loners. They are not unorganized. They want you and me to be unorganized. Who convinced employees that unions are bad ?
Government is us. Government is the people. We elect them. We are supposed to control them. Government is supposed to be there for us. And for a large part, that is true, even in America. We have schools, hospitals, police, an army, social security, roads, and a whole bunch more, because the people do that together, through government. Money well spent. (Although the spending can always be more efficient. But that's true in business as well). But for some reason, in the US people believe the government is their enemy. If you believe that the most import organization of people, by people, is evil, and only the individual counts, then well, you are beyond hope. You, the individual doesn't stand a chance.
For centuries we had the Church play this role. Clergy telling the common folks that it was God's Will that they were poor. God had a plan for them, that's why they had to suffer. Or God wanted to punish them for something they did. In any case, the rich people were the good people, and the poor deserved their misery. Nothing you could do about that.
Now we have Hollywood. And the American news-outlets. And American novels. All tell the American people that they should not organize. They should not feel they are part of a bigger plan. They should not try to fight for a better world or better country. Because only the individual counts. They have to be egoistical. They have to be greedy. They have to be heroes. They have to embrace capitalism. The only way to achieve something is to work hard. And if working hard didn't work, then it must be your fault. After all, the rich worked hard. They succeeded. So you just probably didn't work hard enough.
In the mean time, the American people get trampled by the evil bastards that know this is all bullshit.
It's one of the reasons why Trump has appeal.
Because he is considered to be a lone hero, fighting government, fighting both Democrats and Republicans. Fighting the swamp. A self-made man. It's all bullshit. But it fits the narrative. It is ridiculous.
demagogue on 24/7/2018 at 12:31
Trump is a subversion of it. The authentic brand is something more like Ralph Waldo Emerson's essay (
https://emersoncentral.com/texts/essays-first-series/self-reliance/) Self-Reliance, which I agree is a deep part of US culture. Also, being uninterested in grand designs was the US's saving grace... Grand political adventures kept ripping Europe apart from the 1640s straight through the 1990s and still happening today. Until recently, the US had largely been immune to it. Even the US Civil War was about the extreme antipathy of "states rights" South to national political adventure (nevermind they had been blatantly hypocritical with Manifest Destiny etc; speaking of which Emerson was a big opponent.)
But that whole line turned on ignoring what's happening in DC, or caring more about what's happening on your local main street. It was never meant to create some movement like the Tea Party or Freedom Caucus, or have a national mouthpiece via Fox News, Breitbart, & Info Wars. It's when nativists started caring about what's happening in DC--in the destructive sense--that we got ourselves into trouble. It's people trying to apply their attitude "I despise politics" directly to politics "so let's destroy it from the inside".
The classic skepticism to socialism was a product of the Cold War & NeoCons, but today's version is some malignant subversion of that too as the most militant Never-Trump's of the Right above them all are the NeoCons, who see more totalitarian impulses from Trump than from what he's claiming to fight against.
Gray on 25/7/2018 at 01:56
Quote Posted by demagogue
Grand political adventures kept ripping Europe apart from the 1640s straight through the 1990s and still happening today.
I strongly disagree with this. It was hundreds of years of wars between catholic and protestant nations over whose interpretation of a fictional deity was closer to their imagination, closely followed by the French revolution and all European royal houses trying their very best to not let these horrible ideas of equality spread to the point of declaring several new wars just to supress them. Because, clearly, we can't have people think royals aren't anointed by god and therefore godlike, and we should all have equal rights. Oh, the horror of imagining your average human life is worth as much as somebody else's.
Trance on 25/7/2018 at 02:29
And so we see what Trump tried to do in the 2016 election, setting the stage to delegitimize the midterm results if they don't go his way.
Gray on 25/7/2018 at 02:40
Hyperbolic language will work for people with no memory, It is quite clearly all lies, again. Many US presidents have been tougher on Russia than Trump, in fact it's pretty safe to assume that almost all of them have.
Both JFK and Reagan almost caused WWIII over it, and probably a few more in between.
This points to the very heart of the problem with Trump. He's not bothered with actual facts. He will say any stupid hyperbolic shit that he thinks will make him more popular to the retards who voted for him. Anything that contradicts his "alternative truth" is dismissed as "fake news". This is very, very dangerous, in so many ways. Not only does it erode the trust in impartial news media, it also destroys democracy in its core. What we have now are a generation who are quite happily distracted by bright shiny things, and who do not THINK before they vote.
Trance on 25/7/2018 at 02:49
Trump is trying to claim credit for the rest of the government being tough on Russia, while he's attempted to do everything in his power to soften the blow of sanctions and other measures imposed on Russia. Once again, only his blind followers will fall for it.
uncadonego on 25/7/2018 at 02:51
Come on! Seiously? You fall for that?