Another shooting in the USA. Remind me about the reason for having guns again. - by SubJeff
june gloom on 24/8/2012 at 19:29
We have guns for when Subjeff makes more huge assumptions about countries he's never been to.
Chimpy Chompy on 24/8/2012 at 19:30
Larry I appreciate it's a difficult question. But without some sort of estimate then what are we comparing your acceptable-cost to?
(I'm assuming some level of cost is acceptable. We don't ban absolutely everything that can cause harm).
jay pettitt on 24/8/2012 at 19:43
They don't. (correlate - gun ownership and crime, which Chimpy briefly wondered and then stopped wondering with an edit as I typed). Crime does correlate with other things though - lack of social mobility, inequality and so on. America has those in spades. And they have guns.
The reason why I like gun laws (and knife laws and all the rest) in the UK are because they give Police clear signals about how to do their (potentially dangerous) job. I'm happy to give up my (frankly pointless) freedom to go to the cinema with an assault rifle or take a bowie knife to a ball-room dance if it helps make the job of policing easier and safer.
It'd be interesting to see whether Police getting shot at correlates with gun ownership.
Azaran on 24/8/2012 at 20:48
And now Chicago, where 19 people were shot overnight:
(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19376491)
Nineteen people were shot in seven attacks overnight in Chicago, as the US city's gun violence epidemic continued.
Thirteen of the victims were shot within a half-hour period, including eight in a drive-by shooting on a single street.
Chicago officials have been battling a sharp increase in shootings and homicides, with some elected officials arguing gangs do not fear the police.
The city's murder rate has spiked 29% year-over-year as of this month.
By that time in 2011, 270 people had been killed in the city, according to data complied by the local newspaper RedEye Chicago. In 2012, that number is 348.
Most of the violence has been in Chicago's troubled south and west sides, but also a handful of incidents in the downtown area.
Teenage victims
Thursday's violence began shortly after 17:00 local time (22:00 GMT), when four men were wounded on the west side.
A drive-by shooting in the south side injured seven males and one female, ranging in age from 14 to 20 years. Then five people were wounded in three other shootings around the same time.
Early on Friday morning, a 17-year-old was shot in the back.
Andrew Holmes, a community activist, told NBC Chicago some of the injured were not co-operating with police.
"They need to step up and speak up for us," he said. "Nine times out of 10, they knew who was firing the shot at them."
It is not the first time this year Chicago has seen a single night of double-digit victims.
Over the Memorial Day weekend in May, 12 people were killed, and another 48 were wounded, the Chicago Sun Times newspaper has reported.
Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy has been criticised from his change in policing, eliminating police teams sent to crime hot spots but putting more police on the street in general.
Chicago's increase in homicide is counter to lowered rates in other major US cities, including New York and Washington.Yakoob on 24/8/2012 at 21:45
Oh, one of those threads again...
heywood on 24/8/2012 at 22:42
According to the BBC article, the perp killed his victim with a point blank headshot and tried to walk away. After being tipped off by a construction worker, the cops confronted him, he pulled his gun, and the cops fired 14 rounds to take him down. That means the 9 wounded were almost certainly hit by police rounds.
It's beyond me why two trained police officers both needed to empty their magazines (or nearly so) to take down a guy at close range. It's also beyond me why the police would try to confront someone who is armed with a firearm and pumped with adrenaline in the middle of a crowd.
The biggest argument in favor of gun rights in the US is the need to protect yourself from a militarized police state if it ever gets beyond the people's control. And the biggest argument in favor of gun control is that if you can disarm the criminals then you can demilitarize the police.
Kind of a vicious circle.
SubJeff on 24/8/2012 at 23:02
Quote Posted by dethtoll
We have guns for when Subjeff makes more huge assumptions about countries he's never been to.
I'm really tired of this nonsense. You either want to debate the issue or you don't. If you don't, then kindly piss off.
Fyi; you don't need to visit a country to know anything about it. The USA is so huge I'll wager you know hardly anything about it.
Also fyi; what assumptions exactly?
Azaran on 24/8/2012 at 23:11
Quote Posted by heywood
The biggest argument in favor of gun rights in the US is the need to protect yourself from a militarized police state if it ever gets beyond the people's control. And the biggest argument in favor of gun control is that if you can disarm the criminals then you can demilitarize the police.
Kind of a vicious circle.
Ironically, the most ardent pro-gun segment of the population is also a strong supporter of the military, the very tool a military police state would use to enforce control.
Phatose on 24/8/2012 at 23:13
Demilitarizing the police and demilitarizing the police state are two vastly different things. In the event of armed revolution, it wouldn't be simply the cops rebels are dealing with.
At any rate, it's a moot point. Guns are so widespread in this nation that gun control cannot possibly keep them out of the hands of criminals, and in vast numbers at that. That horse left the barn centuries ago.
