Another shooting in the USA. Remind me about the reason for having guns again. - by SubJeff
SubJeff on 8/9/2012 at 00:38
Exactly jay, exactly.
People are so short sighted. It's a far more complex issue than most of the posts itt belie. I'll admit to being guilty in the title even.
Papy on 8/9/2012 at 04:07
Quote Posted by Adam Nuhfer
Guns have been around and available for well over 100 years to the general populace. The shootings as of late seem to be more representative of changing morals as opposed to the ease of acquiring said firearms. Attempting to legislate morality indirectly by banning firearms is a political solution, not a morality change.
Just some thoughts...
When I was in the army, there were times when we were working 16 hours a day, 7 days a week, while at some other times we were doing absolutely nothing for weeks. There were a lot more fights when people were bored.
I both lived in a small town and in a big city. I'm far more stressed in the big city I'm living now. I regularly see fucking pieces of shit who get away with everything because they are anonymous and so they know they won't have to pay for acting like assholes.
I live in a city with 1.8 million people. There is about 30 murders each year. Most are related to either drugs or conjugal violence. Yet, people around seems to fear violence. I don't think it makes any sense. So I wonder... Could the fact that we hear and see violence every day on TV distort people's understanding of reality?
On my street, I know almost no one. We all have our friends and our families. I'm not interested in knowing who my neighbors are and they are not interested in knowing who I am. So we all live surrounded by strangers for whom we don't care at all.
I could go on like this forever. I don't think morality is the problem. Or I'd rather say the apparent change in morality is only a consequence of the change in the structure of our societies. I don't think we are genetically becoming bad persons. So, to me, there's no way we can change morality without changing our societies. Unfortunately, let's be realistic, we can't change them. So I guess we have to find other solutions to make sure we don't kill each other (I assume that not killing each other is a good thing). What are your solutions? Don't you think a political solution is better than nothing?
Vasquez on 8/9/2012 at 07:13
Quote Posted by Papy
Or I'd rather say the apparent change in morality is only a consequence of the change in the structure of our societies.
Yep. Rats go crazy if the population grows too high, so why not humans.
SubJeff on 8/9/2012 at 08:48
Quote Posted by Papy
There is about 30 murders each year. Most are related to either drugs or conjugal violence. Yet, people around seems to fear violence.
Murder and violence aren't necessarily linked though. In Hull (UK) there isn't a high murder rate, but it's very, very easy to get the living crap beaten out of you in many of the pubs, including in the city centre, and on many of the council estates. These guys aren't out to kill you, they just love fighting. Well, they just like hitting other people; I'm not so sure they like being hit.
jay pettitt on 8/9/2012 at 09:33
Err, isn't that Papy's 'fear of violence' all over again?
Vasquez on 8/9/2012 at 09:46
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
Err, isn't that Papy's 'fear of violence' all over again?
How so? Papy said it makes no sense to fear violence with 30 murders a year. But murder isn't the only kind of violence.
SubJeff on 8/9/2012 at 11:01
Exactly.
Sometimes I feel like I'm trying to push a brick through treacle.
No offence to you specifically jay, but the number of times one has to explain oneself on this forum is... sad.
jay pettitt on 8/9/2012 at 11:45
Quote Posted by Vasquez
How so? Papy said it makes no sense to fear violence with 30 murders a year. But murder isn't the only kind of violence.
In the sense that the fear of violence isn't properly proportional to the actual risk. Human brains tend to overegg small risks. The awkwardness and suspicion that you may feel seeing a group of rough looking types at a watering hole doesn't necessarily translate to them actually being actual psychopaths. Isn't it likely that it's probably just a bit of class prejudice.
That said, the US rape stats are fucking scary, and I now kinda feel the need to qualify every 'in reality you're very safe' statement with 'unless you're a woman'.
Vasquez on 8/9/2012 at 11:53
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
In the sense that the fear of violence isn't properly proportional to the actual risk.
I know, but Papy was talking about fear of violence only in relation to murders, which makes even less sense than to fear violence because of 30 murders per year.
jay pettitt on 8/9/2012 at 11:58
I didn't read it that literally.
