Another shooting in the USA. Remind me about the reason for having guns again. - by SubJeff
Jason Moyer on 25/8/2012 at 04:42
Well, to be fair, I doubt most Americans even realize how the homicide rate is tied to the war on drugs and absolutely terrible urban development. 99% of the time when a city tries to redevelop something it ends up destroying another neighborhood somewhere by isolating it from the rest of the city. Pittsburgh used to have this great section stretching from downtown to the mainly-black hill district that was full of clubs, shops, all kinds of multi-ethnic culture, and they decided to plop Mellon Arena right into the middle of it, separating the hill from the rest of the city and turning it into a ghetto. They've done similar things in other neighborhoods, trying to create entertainment/retail areas and ending up creating another isolated ghetto. I have no idea what the homicide rate in Allegheny County is, but the shootings that do occur happen in those isolated packets of poor minorities, and not in downtown, the college areas, or the suburbs where everyone and their mom owns a gun. It's the same situation in every other city I've been to.
And to correct the thread title, it wasn't a mass shooting. It was a disgruntled individual, going into a "guns free" zone, and killing a former co-worker. The other 9 injuries were from shrapnel created when the police took the perp down; no one else was directly struck by a bullet.
Nicker on 25/8/2012 at 07:09
Quote Posted by Stitch
The reason: you don't punish the millions of responsible gun owners for those few who use guns to tragic ends.
But the "responsible" gun owners are the wellspring of the nut-jobs. The gun culture creates the ecology for these creatures and enables them. Then it denies responsibility for them by reclassifying them out of the good gun owners club.
It's the No True Scotsman fallacy.
Scots Taffer on 25/8/2012 at 07:52
This thread title is so misleading it's like a Daily Mirror headline.
Muzman on 25/8/2012 at 08:46
Quote Posted by Shug
some comments from the video, replying to one another:
I'm starting to lose track of all these fucking shootings.
>> our federal government staged all of these shooting to take away our rights!
>>>> You are right, seems to many shootings have happened recently like the Batman Colorado shooting. They most likely are MK-Ultra Manchurian Candidates. Research something called "Scalar Psychotronic Weapons"
The cycle will be complete when Dave Mustaine opens fire on people (preferably Ted Nugent).
Maybe we can convince him he's a sleeper agent so he goes off somewhere and tries to defy the "programming" like that priest in The Omen.
Anyway, for something sensible, someone posted a list of fairly serious shootings in the US because people were calling this a 'spate' since the Batman thing. Multiple shootings are a fairly regular occurrence (even if they've dropped off a lot in the last 20 years and generally not like the Batman thing). For whatever reason the press are holding on to that long tail of 'paying attention to shootings after a shooting' thing a little longer this time. (no doubt that's something to do with Obama being a freedom hating Mooslim too)
LarryG on 25/8/2012 at 09:34
Quote Posted by Muzman
(no doubt that's something to do with Obama being a freedom hating Mooslim too)
That was tongue in cheek, right? I'd hate to think you are so ignorant to think that.
Fact: President Obama is a Christian and was baptized as a child.
Fact: His father and step father were both Muslim and he, Barack, spent some time in Indonesia where much, but not all, of the population are Muslim, but he, Barack, did not attend Muslim schools or religious services and he has never been Muslim.
Fact: When they lived in Chicago, Barack and Michelle Obama belonged to the United Church of Christ there.
Fact: Since moving to the White House, they regularly attend different churches of various denominations around the DC area, including Baptist.
Now that's out of the way, what does his religion or his strong belief in our American freedoms have to do with how the press are reporting on the recent shootings? I don't get the connection. Please explain your chain of reasoning to how this President is influencing the free press? Exactly what is he doing?
demagogue on 25/8/2012 at 09:42
He's poking fun at the media so it's tongue in cheek, but he's flipped the joke around. The media that focus on shootings are part of the conspiracy along with the president to take'r guns away, since the punchline of those stories is almost always gun control.
Unless he's poking fun of Fox, which I guess wants to say these tragedies mean we need more guns to protect ourselves, from crazies & the president's Muslim death panels... Or something; it was a joke so I don't think he has to explain himself that much...
Scots Taffer on 25/8/2012 at 10:06
Settle down, Larry.
SubJeff on 25/8/2012 at 10:07
Quote Posted by heywood
Did you read the article before you posted it? It wasn't a mass shooting in progress.
I didn't say it was, I said potential. I reckon they're pretty on edge atm.
Quote Posted by dethtoll
Well, to keep it relevant, how about your notion that you need to have 20 guns just to defend yourself here? Aside from the fact that not even the worst parts of this country really warrant that kind of response,
you only have two hands.
I'm a pragmatist. Here in the UK I just have melee weapons because of the low likelihood of burglars/home invaders having guns. And I can handle myself pretty well in 1 on 1 unarmed combat because that's always been one of my hobbies.
In Africa (at the time, in the countries we lived in) there were few guns so we had the same. But because burglaries there were often pretty nasty (severe beatings and rape as well as theft) we had several weapons about the house. In almost any room there was something that could be used hand to hand.
If I lived in any country with a relatively high gun prevalence yes I'd have multiple weapons, and they'd be in different places about the house. As well as melee weapons.
I'm well aware that I appear paranoid. I'm not, but I've known too many people who ended up in a worse situation than they could have been in if they were prepared. And it's not the physical injuries that are so bad but the trauma of knowing you could have potentially done something to stop what happened.
Quote Posted by dethtoll
But noooo, let's just ban guns, that'll solve
everything LIKE MAGIC
I never said this.
The USA doesn't have the highest gun deaths per population/gun ownership. I don't think this is a uniquely US issue. I alluded to this in the OP and I don't think that just banning guns is the answer. It hasn't been in SA, and this issue is more complicated than "guns kill people".
As Chimpy suggested - it's not owning a gun that surprises me, it's the nature of gun ownership in the US, what you can get hold of and how difficult or not it is.
Quote Posted by dethtoll
Gotta love a European trying to tell me he knows more about America than I do.
I never said this.
dethtoll, I'd really like to discuss this topic without having you derail the thread with your personal differences. If you want to PM that would be fine but can you please stop with the hyperbole.
Jason Moyer on 25/8/2012 at 10:16
The thread was pretty much self-derailing from the moment you finished typing the topic. Or, really, about 42.9% of the way into typing the topic.
Also, it's not the third shooting this month. It's probably more like the 2,100th.
june gloom on 25/8/2012 at 10:47
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
I'm a pragmatist. Here in the UK I just have melee weapons because of the low likelihood of burglars/home invaders having guns. And I can handle myself pretty well in 1 on 1 unarmed combat because that's always been one of my hobbies.
Interesting, but irrelevant.
Quote:
In Africa (at the time, in the countries we lived in) there were few guns so we had the same. But because burglaries there were often pretty nasty (severe beatings and rape as well as theft) we had several weapons about the house. In almost any room there was something that could be used hand to hand.
Hey, guess what? South central LA isn't Africa, no matter how much the white supremacists claim it to be! Sure, there's a high crime rate -- rapes, murders, drug dealing, the works -- but it's not Africa. It's not nearly on the same level.
Quote:
If I lived in any country with a relatively high gun prevalence yes I'd have multiple weapons, and they'd be in different places about the house. As well as melee weapons.
And in America, 9 times out of 10 you'd never have a use for any of it and you'd just look like a paranoid crank.
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I'm well aware that I appear paranoid. I'm not,
Yes you are.
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but I've known too many people who ended up in a worse situation than they could have been in if they were prepared.
This is all very true. It's why women learn self-defense classes, it's why people on both sides of the law buy guns.
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I never said this. (re: banning all guns forever)
You certainly have, plus your whole attitude screams it. Hell, you spell it out right there in the title of this whole stupid thread.
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The USA doesn't have the highest gun deaths per population/gun ownership. I don't think this is a uniquely US issue.
You keep not understanding. Every country is different, with their own entrenched cultures that may have some superficial and even fundamental similarities to other countries but are nowhere near identical. Trying to apply standards and reasoning concerning one country onto another simply doesn't work.
Quote:
I never said this. (re: knowing about America)
Yes you did. Shall I quote it for you again? Here you go, before you try and flush the evidence:
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Fyi; you don't need to visit a country to know anything about it. The USA is so huge I'll wager you know hardly anything about it.
I don't claim to know everything about America but for heaven's sake I know far more than you. You don't see me making ridiculous, unfounded assertions about England, do you?
Quote:
dethtoll, I'd really like to discuss this topic without having you derail the thread with your personal differences. If you want to PM that would be fine but can you please stop with the hyperbole.
I don't think 'hyperbole' means what you think it means.
But you're right, I do have a pretty poor opinion of you. It's like... I want to like you but then you make another post. Or you do something that is so ridiculously irritating and offensive you had to have planned it. You're like Evabot grown another 10 years.
