faetal on 24/7/2013 at 16:14
Yeah, that would have been good. I'm kind of miffed that my early attack with the Queen and bishop on the top right corner didn't pan out.
hopper on 24/7/2013 at 18:45
Why on earth didn't you take his queen in 33?
faetal on 24/7/2013 at 21:37
In hindsight, I think I was focussing on using my rooks too much, but you're 100% right.
SubJeff on 24/7/2013 at 22:04
I liked your move at 20, but knight to rook at 21 would have been better. You'd have lost your knight but taken a knight and a rook. You had the chance to still take that rook until 24.
At 28 you taking his pawn with your queen would have forked the king and knight.
Agree 33 should have taken the queen.
This is the only difference between you and hopper - he'd have done those things, you didn't.
I don't get the not losing knights or bishops to rooks. I know people like knights and bishops (obviously I personally favour knights) but the order of importance is most definitely Queen > Rook > Knight/Bishop.
Nuth on 25/7/2013 at 02:29
Yeah, Rooks are generally more valuable than Bishops or Knights. That's a trade you should usually make.
You should also develop the habit of examining checks and captures first thing when it's your move. Those are the threats you should be watching out for first when it's your opponent's move, too. Just doing that will save you a lot of grief.
Gryzemuis on 25/7/2013 at 07:47
Usually people value material like this:
Pawn - 1 point
Knight - 3 points
Bishop - 3 points
Rook - 5 points
Queen - 9 points
Knights and bishops are kinda equal. There are some subtleties. Later on in the game, when more pawns are gone, and positions are more open, bishops are considered slightly stronger than knights, because they can travel faster on an open board. However, bishops can cover only one color, where knights can cover any square. So the rule is: the bishop pair is slightly stronger than 2 knights or a knight and a bishop. Therefor you shouldn't trade your bishops against knights easily early in the game.
Everybody should also start using the (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebraic_notation_%28chess%29) Algebraic notation. It's much easier and quicker. The whole world uses it. (Even the British since decades). I think it might also help you develop a better positional sense. (E.g. every field gets a name, and you really start to give it certain properties after a while. E.g. f7 is the field where you sacrifice a bishop. :))
faetal on 25/7/2013 at 08:39
Cheers for the tips guys. Will all be taken into account.
I can feel my overall understanding of the game and my attack improving - I just need to step it up a notch.
SubJeff on 25/7/2013 at 09:13
You were so close there.
Take what you've learnt from these last posts and play me. You'll be much more challenging. I've never beaten you because I'm better than you, only because you were worse than me iyswim.
The reason hopper and I have such epic games is that we see about the same distance ahead and don't make the mistakes you did in that last game, for the most part. He's too vigilant for me!
Nuth is a different kettle of fish - he has superior overall strategy.
Gryzemuis on 25/7/2013 at 09:59
Some in depth analysis:
Many times during the first half of the game, you could have played ... h6, forcing the Ng5 to move backwards. That would have released some pressure from your king. And it would have made white waste 2 moves (move Knight to g5, and move back). And on h3, the Knight would have not helped defend white's king anyway. E.g. on the 16th move, h6 would have made things complicated for white (moving the Ng5 would allow you to take e4).
On the 18th move, 18. Bd3, Nxc3 white made the first big mistake. In a sharp position like that, it is still often not easy to find the winning moves. But here you had your piece back, with a strong attack.
On the 20th move, you played Qb1+. I would have first taken hxBg5, forcing white to move his Queen (or cap the pawn on g5). And then continue the attack on white's queen. Grabbing material is not always best. But if you can do it while maintaining your attack, it's usually not bad to do so. Even if your attack stops, you still have a big material advantage.
23. Rf2, Rfd8. A move I would have never played. One important aspect in the middle-game is who owns the open lines. Your Rf8 controlled the f-line. When white played Rf2, I would not have moved. If white plays Rxf8, black plays Ra8xf8. And again you control the open f-line.
But even better, I would have played Rxf2. White would have no better option than to take back, Qxf2. And then you play h6xNg5. Black is now 2 pieces up, and still has an attack. (Threats are Ne4+ forking K+Q, or playing Raf8, taking control of the f-line). White has no plan. By doing this, you also simplify the game. Simplifying is always good for the player with (big) material advantage.
But you played Rfd8, alllowing Nxe6, giving white counterplay. No problem, you were still winning. The next few moves were all very tactical. (Tactical = lots of possible combinations). You kept your advantage.
27 Ra8e8 gave away half your advantage. You were in control of the attack. But Re8 was a bit too slow. You threaten to take Ne6. But you were already a rook up (which is enough to win the endgame). In such situations (having an easily winning endgame) you should either 1) continue your own attack, or 2) strenghten your king's position, or 3) trade pieces, and simplify the game. A better move would have been 27. ... Nxd4 or 27. ... Qc3+. Still, after Re8 you were still winning.
As other have said, everything went fine until 33. ... Re4. You should have played Rxf2+. You gain material advantage, you remove any threat white has, and you simplify. Even if Rxf2 is not a quick mate, you can easily see white is losing and has no chances.
Still, after 33. ... Re4 you were winning. The next move 34. ... Kgx7 was losing. If you had played Kh7, white's Ng7 would have been in the way. And white could not continue the attack. You could have regained the initiative.
A pretty good game by Black.
Too bad you made that mistake of Kxg7 in stead Kh7. But you had a nice plan of attack. You might not have always played the best move. But only computers and grandmasters always play the best move. You made no mistakes, kept your advantage, kept your attack. You just need a little more experience and a little calmness to convert a winning position into a won game.
hopper on 25/7/2013 at 10:15
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
I liked your move at 20, but knight to rook at 21 would have been better. You'd have lost your knight but taken a knight and a rook.
If he had moved Nxa4, the logical reply would be Nxa4, which would prevent him from also taking the knight. He'd have lost a knight for a rook, which is good, but his move let him take a knight for nothing, which is better.
And 23. ..hxg5 really is a must-take, as Nuth already said.