CCCToad on 18/6/2010 at 01:52
Its not entirely fair in Starcraft, because a human is constrained by the limitations of the interface. An AI, on the other hand, can give an order to any of its units instantaneously.
Chade on 18/6/2010 at 01:52
And surely a perfect starcraft AI would have to consider the impact each decision would have on the entire course of the game, just like a chess AI?
In other words, the perfect AI couldn't just "extrapolate from your units exactly what path you are taking and counter it perfectly" ... what buildings does it build? This is not a local optimisation. When and where does it explore? Not a local optimisation. When entering into combat, you might be able to figure out the locally optimal way of winning that specific fight, but what if a second fight starts up in twenty seconds and the units killed in the first fight would have been better expended in the second? So again, that's not a local optimisation either.
While I know that (fairly poor?) human players generally play in such a way that they lose information about earlier events in the game (i.e., sitting at the base and rebuilding the exact same "best" army), I'm not convinced that the perfect starcraft game would necessarily suffer the same problem.
Koki on 18/6/2010 at 05:19
Quote:
Don't confuse complexity of gameplay mechanics with complexity of the game. Chess has incredibly simple gameplay mechanics but very high game complexity.
Complexity of game is product of complexity of all gameplay mechanics.
And why the fuck perfect AI would be cheating?
addink on 18/6/2010 at 10:38
Quote Posted by Sulphur
@demagogue/addink: What about a game that features little to no story whatsoever for an MO, like Noby Noby Boy? There aren't any concrete gameplay goals or challenges either. It's a literal sandbox with no win/lose/end state. But you can play around and do stuff with it. Does that fit the 'toy' hypothesis because it's not goal- or story-oriented?
A toy can be played with any way the player likes. There is no good or bad performance, there is no set end.
If the player wants to play a game with the toy he/she can, but it won't be the toy that sets the rules for the game, it's not the toy that decides what's good or bad. That's all left to the player(s).
There is definitely a gray area using this definition. An interactive environment with no set goals can feature some rules. If those rules create a situation where a specific response from the environment is a challenge to achieve, that would start to move towards being a game.
I've not played Noby Noby Boy but from what I can gather it does not impose a goal, making it a toy. However, the length of Boy is a stat that is displayed on screen all the time, basically a score of sorts, a goal, making it a game. Then again, in the AppStore the developer has categorized it as 'entertainment' and not as a game..
june gloom on 19/6/2010 at 04:43
god dammit I get banned for 30 days and this shit happens?
addink on 22/6/2010 at 11:22
Quote Posted by dethtoll
god dammit I get banned for 30 days and this shit happens?
Contrary to your own misguided opinion, empty comments like these are not why people come to this forum. Grow up.
Queue on 22/6/2010 at 11:57
I say ban him again.
june gloom on 22/6/2010 at 17:37
Quote Posted by addink
Contrary to your own misguided opinion, empty comments like these are not why people come to this forum. Grow up.
bawww
This is a shitty thread, with a shitty, whiny, bullshit topic- by Poetic Thief, no less, to the surprise of nobody. You know it, I know it, so why are you giving me shit for pointing it out?
Sulphur on 22/6/2010 at 17:49
I thought we managed to get a good couple of discussions going on. demagogue and addink (and *gasp* Koki and his linky) and much of the actual, sane discussion here were pretty damn thought-provoking.
june gloom on 22/6/2010 at 17:57
True. But the original post is one of the most rage-inducing, IQ-reducing things I've seen in a while and I'm pretty much forced to assume it only happened because I wasn't here to swiftly nutkick it before things got out of hand.
