Somebody_Else on 17/2/2009 at 04:10
I'm not sure what it is about Thief but even today it looks incredible. I just got a 37" LCD TV to use as a monitor and Thief II with the updated high-res textures and widescreen mod looks quite nice at 1920x1080. :cool:
There was a study awhile back about human/robot interaction that showed that many people found extremely realistic robots to be very creepy looking and preferred simpler, less-realistic designs. I'm wondering if the same thing applies to computer games. I enjoy the graphics in games like Thief, Half-Life, Morrowind, and Homeworld and I find their worlds draw me in just as much (if not more) than newer, more realistic looking games.
It might just be that newer games just aren't as good, or maybe we're all just being nostalgic, but newer games like Homeworld 2 feel boring and ugly looking while the original is still fun to play.
sNeaksieGarrett on 17/2/2009 at 05:45
Ah, great thread...:cool: I'm with you guys on the "gameplay is better than graphics" standpoint. Seems [alot of] kids these days only care about graphics, and don't appreciate the older titles.:erg::nono: It's no wonder then that companies obliged, and story/immersion are thrown on the back burner, so to speak. Then, with today's console market, now you have horribly ported games to PC, or vise versa. Bah!
Andarthiel on 17/2/2009 at 07:32
Quote Posted by atolonen
I do think Thief looks good. Not from a technical perspective but from a design one - I mean that the choice of visual style, lighting, and such work really well, and help mask the technical shortcomings of the engine to a great degree. I especially love how pitch black shadow is used in Thief 1 (the cell block in Cragscleft comes to mind immediately), and I'm a bit sad that they abandoned this approach in the later games, even though it's easier to see the surroundings in them.
Aye, I agree with atolonen, graphics-wise it's nothing special but in terms of gameplay,atmosphere,presentation, story, lore, characters etc. it's one of the best.
Herr_Garrett on 17/2/2009 at 07:34
Sure, Thief could look better. I really appreciated the prettier graphics of DS, BUT! But in DS with the new graphics the City felt entirely different. In fact, it was more Mediaeval than ever. In DP, and especially in MA, I really liked the old Stalin-baroque feeling of the huge warehouses, the newer buildings and Angelwatch (possibly because I grew up in Budapest :p), they felt really fitting. And since Stalin-baroque, and soc-real architecture never went much into detail about ornamentation and stuff, the textures were wholly realistic. So, yes, for their environment the Thieves still look extremely good.
(Altough, personally, I'd be glad for some better-looking NPC meshes...:D, somehow people being a bunch of cubes of triangles, with faces like Toblerone is... pretty surrealistic :p )
atolonen on 17/2/2009 at 13:35
Quote Posted by Somebody_Else
There was a study awhile back about human/robot interaction that showed that many people found extremely realistic robots to be very creepy looking and preferred simpler, less-realistic designs. I'm wondering if the same thing applies to computer games. I enjoy the graphics in games like Thief, Half-Life, Morrowind, and Homeworld and I find their worlds draw me in just as much (if not more) than newer, more realistic looking games.
I believe you hit the nail on the head there. At least I prefer a more stylized approach, letting imagination fill in the blanks like some others have already pointed out in this topic. Ultra realistic stuff, especially when it comes to people, animals, etc., tends to take away from my enjoyment and just end up looking bland and uninteresting no matter how technically advanced it is.
The Magpie on 17/2/2009 at 17:48
Quote Posted by atolonen
Ultra realistic stuff, especially when it comes to people, animals, etc., tends to take away from my enjoyment and just end up looking bland and uninteresting no matter how technically advanced it is.
Visually, this is the (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley) Uncanny Valley revisited, of course. What I'm wondering is whether this phenomenon is at all applicable to AIs. If an AI
was getting very close to passing the Turing test, and its interface was decidedly artificial, would it have any impact on our reactions to it? Think HAL 3000 and countless other fictional ship and home computer voices. Or ELIZA and her derivates, for that matter. I don't specifically have SHODAN in mind, but...
I'm guessing we'd like it more.
--
Larris
Herbrand on 17/2/2009 at 19:59
Visually, no sorry - Thief is outdated beyond belief. But the gameplay is what matters to me... after the initial distress, I still find myself hooked and - magic word - immersed in Thief's world - no matter how triangle-shaped everything may look.
gunsmoke on 17/2/2009 at 20:14
I'm no graphics whore. I am still thrown into DX, Thief, and even Ultima Underworld so far that it is almost like being there. Even 3rd person titles w/a rich environment like Gothic 2, are hard to separate from reality.
atolonen on 17/2/2009 at 21:26
Thanks for the link. I hadn't examined that thing before. And any theory that includes zombies is awesome! :thumb:
Having read that I would still maintain my position that I would most probably find even those visuals virtually indistinguishable from reality bland and uninteresting in computer games and such. Judging by my tastes and past behavior I can say that this is highly likely because I play games for entertainment, and I get most of my entertainment value from escapism. Naturally, I can't say what my actual reaction when coming across such a thing would be, because I haven't experienced it yet.
Quote Posted by The Magpie
What I'm wondering is whether this phenomenon is at all applicable to AIs. If an AI
was getting very close to passing the Turing test, and its interface was decidedly artificial, would it have any impact on our reactions to it? Think HAL 3000 and countless other fictional ship and home computer voices. Or ELIZA and her derivates, for that matter. I don't specifically have SHODAN in mind, but...
I'm guessing we'd like it more.
That's an interesting prospect, and I for one would definitely want to experience it - even if it is likely that I would grow uninterested in it after the initial awe. Also, I'm wondering how real an AI (or any other thing in a computer game) can ever seem when there are so many other things betraying it's non-real nature. For example, I reckon the player is already in a "game" mindset when encountering game characters so it can be quite hard to mistake the AI for "real" beings. Nevertheless, having AIs being able to
improvise in a way indistinguishable from a human's would probably bring a great deal of value to a game. Yeah, That's a huge thing to make happen, but one can always dream (is this escapism again?). But alas, I'm on a weird tangent here. Sorry. This was an interesting subject.
Bouregard on 17/2/2009 at 22:06
Well I think the Thief graphiks are fairly outdated. But its a extremly coherent design. It fits completly and let you dive into the city.
A big problem from newer games is that you can easily spot interactable objects/questtargets by position or even appearence. That breaks the immersion.
Thief don't have this problem.
Leveldesign:
Thief mansions could be mostly fully functionally buildings, they got a toilet, a bathroom etc. They are like real buildings where a mission happens, not a mission with a designed building to house the object to steal.
Small things:
The notes, the guards, the audio. Yes all this add to the thief feeling. You learn of your victims little problems, their fears or even hopes...
Instead of playing heavy metal or some generic fighting/exploring theme Thief lives mostly with the natural sounds like running water, people or wind.
