Poetic thief on 4/9/2009 at 22:36
Quote Posted by gunsmoke
I would agree with you that, yes, some games are definitely better when you are younger. But, I find it odd that you picked some of the deepest, dialogue heavy, longest, and more 'intelligent' games that IMHO seemed aimed at an older demographic.
Let me explain. Like I said, it's not that the games are immature, it's just...
Take Planescape Torment. This is a game I would have really really enjoyed if I had played it in high school. During that time in my life, I was obsessed with Camus, Sartre (existentialism in general).
But I have since read many works of philosophy, and when I encountered it in Torment this summer, it came off as being a bit simplistic, and teenage angsty.
It's like listening in on a "deep conversation" among freshman students. Sure, the discussion is interesting, but I've heard all the points before, I've thought much about them before, I've seen them debated from many different angles. They just aren't as intriguing anymore.
In many ways, I lament that I didn't play Torment at an earlier point in my life.
demagogue on 4/9/2009 at 23:51
I believe Wordsworth explained this phenomenon best, if you don't mind the occassional iambic pentameter:
Quote Posted by Ode: Intimations of Immortality from Recollections of Early Childhood
Heaven lies about us in our infancy!
Shades of the prison-house begin to close
Upon the growing Boy,
But he beholds the light, and whence it flows,
He sees it in his joy;
The Youth, who daily farther from the east
Must travel, still is Nature's priest,
And by the vision splendid
Is on his way attended;
At length the Man perceives it die away,
And fade into the light of common day.
Iroquois on 5/9/2009 at 00:38
It could be the simplest thing of all really; your tastes just change eventually. It's less about the games themselves (though certainly some games are geared toward younger audiences, i.e. San Andreas, which has nothing for a mature, functional brain to enjoy, ironically) and more about your own tastes as you grow up.
For example, I used to love the Silent Hill series. It's undoubtedly a great franchise with some excellent titles. Still, as of a year or so, I cannot bring myself to sit through any of them. They bore me to death. In fact, I found out that all horror titles now bore me to death, while two or three years back I'd eat them up.
swaaye on 5/9/2009 at 02:33
It's not just about tastes changing though. Maybe it's more accurate to say that you refine your old tastes, looking for new approaches to them, and also discover new interests along the way.
However I can definitely relate to the "heavyweight philosophical gaming that hit you hard when you were in your teens" becoming rather ridiculous and simplistic later down the road. Deus Ex has some of that for sure IMO. I didn't play it back in its time but have been working my way through it recently. Good stuff for the most part, but the writing is pretty cliche/cheesy sometimes. :)
Phatose on 5/9/2009 at 05:05
No, it's about tastes changing. Sometimes that's simple refinement, other times it's much greater then that.
I'm sure it varies for each of us. For me, large timesink games have lost nearly all of their appeal. jRPGs, which are unbelievability guilty of having an awful lot of time doing not much, were my bread and butter as a kid when I had plenty of time. Now....no. Sitting through one cutscene is annoying, sitting through a game which is essentially all cutscene is unplayable.
Angel Dust on 5/9/2009 at 05:49
Quote Posted by Poetic thief
But I have since read many works of philosophy, and when I encountered it in Torment this summer, it came off as being a bit simplistic, and teenage angsty.
Sure
Torment's philosophical side was simplistic if compared to something like Dostoyevsky but I think it was explored in enough depth and maturity for the story it was telling. I think people have a tendency to focus on praising that aspect of
Torment over and above its other strengths (the anti-fantasy fantasy world, the weird and wonderful characters, interesting visual design, strong story) which means that some people, coming to it later, end up a little unsatisfied with the philosophical elements. It is an interesting part of
Torment and works very well as a part of the whole but it's not like it was ever intended to be the new word on existentialism.
Quote:
It's like listening in on a "deep conversation" among freshman students. Sure, the discussion is interesting, but I've heard all the points before, I've thought much about them before, I've seen them debated from many different angles. They just aren't as intriguing anymore.
I agree to a certain extent but the same ol' ideas can become intruiging again. I've seen many films and read many books where while the ideas are not necessarily new, there are told in an interesting way or posed to interesting characters.
There Will Be Blood doesn't really tell me anything more than
Citizen Kane did about the dark side of the 'American Dream' but it does it in a fresh way.
I certainly agree with some of your points though and I have certainly found some games have lost their luster over the years. I also have less patience for stupid game design than when I was younger although interestingly I don't get as frustrated.
Koki on 5/9/2009 at 06:52
Quote Posted by Poetic thief
What I mean is that as a kid, there is a certain way of looking at the world that makes it easier for you to just completely immerse yourself in a game.
Yes, it's called stupidity. When you're a kid you don't ask "why" or "how", you take everything at face value as 100% truth. Your suspension of disbelief is infinitely big.
Then you grow the fuck up(or not, as evidenced by many people, also here on TTLG) and stuff that doesn't make sense isn't magical anymore, it just doesn't make goddamn sense.
Sulphur on 5/9/2009 at 07:23
Self-reflexive statements, Koki, don't paint yourself in the brightest light.
After all, all things considered, it's hard to believe you either a) had a childhood or, if you had one, b) you're not still inhabiting it.
I speak only for myself and the rest of the forum here.
Addendum and footnote: A splash of cold pedantic reasoning in the face of your logic: your suspension of disbelief is not "infinitely big" when you're a kid. Unless you're below the mental age of 3, on average.
GRRRR on 5/9/2009 at 09:03
There surely is a "been there done that" effect.
Also looking at stuff like the Resi 2 Minigun (2 hours without saving and whatnot) or all these Perfect Dark Hard Mode unlockables makes me think i was prolly insane for putting up with that. I cant even think of attempting stuff like that again, getting old has made me soft and casual and dependant on quicksave. :laff:
242 on 5/9/2009 at 09:08
When you're younger the grasses are greener and the trees are taller. The lesser is experience the sharper is impression. The experience is lesser when you're younger.
