Are Thief 3 missions better than T1 and 2 missions

Dussander on 20/10/2007 at 00:09

Moira's, Cradle and the Museum are better than some TDP missions - namely the creature missions near the end, and TMA's Kidnap and Sabotage. Missions like Clocktower and the Hammer Cathedral are about the same as missions like Undercover, the Sword (sorry folks, was not a fan of the strangeness) and the sheriff's TMA mansion.

Otherwise... I prefer the TMA and TDP levels. TMA have the best and TDP is not far behind, Assassins and the Bank, for instance, have never been improved upon.

New Horizon on 20/10/2007 at 01:29

TDS missions...mmm. Can't say I found any of them to be better than T1 and T2 missions. They felt far too simplified. They didn't feel alive like T1/2 missions. I used to get lost for hours in T1/2 missions...no so in TDS.

Abysmal on 20/10/2007 at 02:30

So Undercover, Escape, Strange Bedfellows, Maw, Running Interference, Eavesdropping, Courier, Kidnap, and Casing are all superior to T3 missions? ;)

P.S. I love Maw & Casing (& T3)

evangelos k on 20/10/2007 at 04:35

Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn

Not me. Deadly for me was a game I purchased just to see what they did with the series.

Dark Project was an actual way of life for a winter. The Missions will always stand as one of game designs great achievements.

X2

Thief: The Dark Project ruined EVRYTHING else for me. Given, age did it too, but since the Original Thief, no other game came even close (for me). T II & III were way above average, but nothing can give me the magic of the original.

242 on 20/10/2007 at 08:29

I think Cradle is better than majority of T1/2 missions, and Castle, Overlook Manison, Museum are on par.

Ermana on 20/10/2007 at 11:14

I liked layout of T3 levels, except pagan missions (caves) and open City areas that looked quite small and isolated to me.
The Gamall's lair, Cradle, Museum, Keeper places, mansions have interesting layout. But childish graphic and gameplay bugs, those brakes before you can use your weapon, made it very hard to enjoy.

I would not say they are better, but design of these missions makes it harder to resist other bad things in T3. It always gives me thoughts what if there would be no bugs and loading zones. :nono:

Quote Posted by *Zaccheus*

But the individual missions were far too small and I never had the feeling that I was entering a world which existed before I joined the story.

This is true too. I felt more like seeing all game in some kind of buggy level editor and just watching ideas but not going through them or into them :)

242 on 20/10/2007 at 13:18

Quote Posted by Ermana

The Gamall's lair,

That's not a mission but technically a city part.

Ermana on 20/10/2007 at 16:45

Yes, correct :) Though I think about it as separate mission.
I deliberately wrote it in the first place, because I liked it even more like Cradle and no one mentioned this "part" like good one yet :)
Gamall's lair is small, but it looks like considered to be small. It was one "part" where I found quite interesting way in, nice decoration and those living statues were more in place. So nothing very special, but it looked well balanced to me.

Sypha Nadon on 22/10/2007 at 02:31

Well, I guess you could say that the TDS missions LOOK better than those in the first two games (in terms of graphics)... having said that, I still prefer the graphic style in the first two games.

You know, it's funny, years ago I used to hate stages like Escape! & Thieves Guild but as the years have gone by I've developed a weird fondness for some of those loathed missions (still don't like Casing the Joint though). I guess what I'm saying is there isn't one TDS mission I'd prefer over any mission from the first two games, with the exception of the Cradle.

I mean, I think the biggest stage in TDS is the museum and it still seems too small. I mean, only two stories (come to think of it, most of the buildings in TDS were only two stories, which irked me to no end). The construction seemed all off also. Like, where were the restrooms? One thing I like about the first two Thief games is that the living environments were full of rooms that, while not adding much to the game, helped you imagine people actually living there during the daytime. TDS cut a lot of those little charms out, and while it may not seem like a big deal to some, it lost a bit of realism.

I did tend to like the Hammerite missions in TDS, such as St. Edgars and the clock tower. But I didn't like the pagan mission at all. The tree beasts were so fucking cool in TMA but in TDS they were totally wasted (ditto for the Haunts, who were also kind of put to poor effect in TMA, now that I think about it). The Keeper compound was kind of a disappointment, also, especially the Keeper library, which seemed miniscule, whereas in past games it probably would have been an epic mult-floor affair (hell, the library in the Mage Tower in TG was bigger than the Keepers' library).

I think the biggest flaw though is how the missions were divided, which just totally seemed to mess with the flow. And there just wasn't enough to explore IMO.

fett on 22/10/2007 at 03:59

Quote Posted by evangelos k

Exactly why it's hard to compare anything else to it. I loved T3, but it can't touch the others in my mind. I've had real trouble continuing to buy and play games since TDP because it just makes everything else seem so run-of-the-mill. The only thing that even comes close is SS2, but it's apples and oranges.

The thing about T3 that's so weird to me is that while it's all connected to the city, and the storyline is admittedly a bit stronger than the first two games (IMO), the missions just don't feel as connected for some reason. As others have noted, the shortness and linearity of the T3 missions really dampen the immersion. I'll never forget the first play through THC or LotP - I kept thinking, "Christ, this thing just goes on, and on, and on," - it was a real world, without seams. In T3 for some reason (maybe it's from working on T2X) I was always very aware of the design, the AI movement, the way I was being led through the map from one important note to another. In the first two, I really felt like a Thief who was clever and inventive, and was uncovering clues all on my own. In other words, the design and intention on the creators just faded into the background, whereas in T3 it felt like most other games - forced, presumptuous of my needs as a player, and very very restrictive.