ZylonBane on 7/11/2012 at 20:19
Quote Posted by Pyrian
How many people have played James Bond? Or Batman? Or Spiderman? Or The Hulk?
How many people have played Luke Skywalker?
All the characters you cited existed in written and illustrated fiction long before they were put on film, thus there is a built-in cultural expectation that the actors portraying them will be merely another element of the adaptation. Mark Hamill, on the other hand,
is Luke Skywalker, just as Harrison Ford is Han Solo, Mel Gibson is Mad Max, Robert Englund is Freddy Krueger, Kurt Russell is Snake Plissken, and so on and so forth. Audiences, for whatever reason you care to put on it, seem profoundly more receptive to recasting a character from a book (Jack Ryan, Jason Bourne, Dr. Frankenstein, etc.), than recasting the actor who defined the character. It's certainly been attempted, but the success rate has been... not so great. They tried to replace William Shatner as James T. Kirk and we ended up with a whiny punching-bag douche. Norman Bates as not-Anthony Perkins-- that sank like a stone (yes, based on a book, but not a well-known one at the time). Anyone but Bruce Campbell as Ash... that remains to be seen. Even a character from a book, like Willy Wonka, can be so memorably portrayed by a particular actor that their performance becomes the benchmark for all successive actors to brave the role.
So, can anyone cite a film that recast a popular original character and is generally considered to have done a good job of it?
SubJeff on 7/11/2012 at 20:53
Sometimes ZB really pumps my nads.
That post was beautiful.
And I think Stitch just didn't bother because you were so wrong Pyrian. ZB has summed it up right there.
And the Looper thing didn't even make sense. Next you'll quote Brando and De Niro in Godfather 2.
Stitch on 7/11/2012 at 21:20
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
And I think Stitch just didn't bother because you were so wrong Pyrian.
Yes, plus I really wanted ZylonBane to pump your nads.
ZylonBane on 7/11/2012 at 23:31
I must admit that most of the recasting in Star Trek [sic] was pretty good, James T. Facepunch excepted. Too bad about the movie itself sucking.
blaydes99 on 7/11/2012 at 23:38
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
...Anyone but Bruce Campbell as Ash... that remains to be seen.
You are right on the money here, though I'd go a step further and put him in the same category as the others as he is
irreplaceable.Pyrian on 8/11/2012 at 00:07
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
All the characters you cited existed in written and illustrated fiction long before they were put on film, thus there is a built-in cultural expectation that the actors portraying them will be merely another element of the adaptation.
That's true, but I'm very dubious of the notion that the effect is significant. Recasting Hulk was not a problem, recasting Iron Man
would be. Recasting Mark Hamil would not be a problem, recasting Han Solo
would be. That has nothing to do with whether there's any pre-existing materials, and everything to do with the shoes being filled.
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
So, can anyone cite a film that recast a popular original character and is generally considered to have done a good job of it?
Maybe
you can!
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
I must admit that most of the recasting in
Star Trek [sic] was pretty good, James T. Facepunch excepted. Too bad about the movie itself sucking.
So, basically everything you just told me and got congratulated for telling me, you don't even agree with?
Niiice.
So, yeah, I totally agree with you, it'll be fine as long as they do a good job of casting and bad if they don't. Just like any other movie.
ZylonBane on 8/11/2012 at 00:12
Quote Posted by Pyrian
Maybe
you can!
No cheating. Come up with your own example, douche.
Stitch on 8/11/2012 at 15:53
Quote Posted by Pyrian
Whatever. How many people have played James Bond? Or Batman? Or Spiderman? Or The Hulk? Looper even has two people playing the same character in the same movie. I don't think the movie-going public in general gives a rats-arse about recasting. I think movie-
makers actually care more - something about "artistic integrity" - but IMO that shouldn't get in the way of telling the right story.
Just a couple more point here: you actually have things reversed--I think filmmakers would be all too happy to swap actors or actresses between films depending on availability and popularity, but it's the movie-going general public that actually cares (to some degree) about actor/actress consistency. Filmmakers care, sure, but mostly (I'd guess) because they know that the public does. Films are ultimately made for the viewer (and their wallets), even if the filmmakers might also think that they have a better idea what the viewer wants or needs than the viewers themselves.
ZB handled the rest of why your post is wrong and your examples are shit--reboots, really?!--but you do make a point in a follow-up post that while still wrong is at least more peripherally connected to a reality that is shared by people besides yourself:
Quote Posted by Pyrian
Recasting Mark Hamil would not be a problem, recasting Han Solo
would be. That has nothing to do with whether there's any pre-existing materials, and everything to do with the shoes being filled.
I'd agree that there are certain roles that become iconic because of the spark and personality granted by a specific actor's portrayal. This is why, for example, Katie Holmes was recast in the new Batman trilogy and Heath Ledger was not.
At the same time, though, you're completely wrong if you think that recasting Mark Hamill would be a trivial matter. Hamill is at the center of one of the most successful film trilogies of all time. As ZB pointed out, Mark Hamill
is Luke Skywalker in the eyes of everyone, and breaking that for sequels would not be without consequence.
june gloom on 8/11/2012 at 18:10
Actually, for me, Hamill is the voice of the Joker. (Ledger is all well and good but his brutal, anarchic interpretation of the character doesn't completely jibe with what's in the comics most of the time.)
ZylonBane on 8/11/2012 at 18:27
Facepalm.
The question isn't "Who is Mark Hamill?" The question is "Who is Luke Skywalker?"
So okay, we've established that Luke Skywalker isn't Heath Ledger.
