june gloom on 21/10/2011 at 10:23
Occupy Cincinnati's been a pretty quiet affair. They took over Piatt Park, which is this tiny little strip in the middle of downtown. They were mostly quiet and respectful, and local businesses were fine with them (except when they used the businesses' bathrooms to bathe themselves.) The cops/city and Occupy did this little dance where citations were handed out every night (the park closes at 10) except when the chief (first out-of-town chief ever btw, and also only came in a few months ago) said no and later when a judge said no. But property owners have been pushing city council and finally tonight the occupiers all packed up and left, fearing arrest. 21 got arrested anyway- rather quietly from what I gather- and the rest are gone.
Vasquez on 21/10/2011 at 10:26
Quote Posted by Vernon
The police removed their badges before hoeing into the protesters.
Didn't notice this, well it does change matters somewhat.
As for the violence in that clip, I've been dragged - not by the police though - so I don't need any thinking through about that. I can say from experience that it likely looks much worse than feels (physically I mean, of course it can be otherwise scary), especially nowadays when using any kind of force in any situation is such a big no-no.
Ostriig on 21/10/2011 at 10:52
Quote Posted by Vernon
I'm happy to fling as much shit as I like at the riot police thugs. [...] To me this looks like illegal police action against legal civilian action.
I'm not sure if that first statement is entirely warranted. I'll get to that in a second, but regarding the second part - based on what you've said, I'm inclined to agree with it. However, and I believe this is what Vasquez was getting at too, it looks to me like you may be placing the blame on the wrong people. If the protesters were issued an order to leave, despite them engaging in a
legal and peaceful demonstration, then the illegality has been committed by whomever issued that order. Rank-and-file policemen then moving in to enforce that order is just them fulfilling the terms of their contracts.
Again, I'm only going off what you've said and that video. Whatever goes on off-camera isn't part of what I'm addressing here.
Quote Posted by Vernon
The police removed their badges before hoeing into the protesters. Let that sink in for a while.
And this ties in to the "riot police thugs" thing.
Why did they remove them? Was it a gesture to show disapproval for what they were being ordered to do, or was it "fuck yeah, ass-kicking time". I'd be really curious to see some comments from the police themselves on that, and I'm reluctant to make assumptions because, unless they have a story ready about how it's the former case, it seems like a pretty stupid display to provide the media with.
Vasquez on 21/10/2011 at 10:58
Thanks, this was much more informative than a short "Look it's a police violence spree!!!!" -video clip.
Matthew on 21/10/2011 at 11:07
Quote Posted by Ostriig
it seems like a pretty stupid display to provide the media with.
Yes, but don't forget it makes it that much harder to have the officer disciplined if they remove their badge numbers prior to engaging in shenanigans, especially if they have riot gear on.
The Alchemist on 21/10/2011 at 12:05
I've been following this rather closely and have been sure to look at both sides of the coin (luckly reddit seems to be very reasonable when it comes to this.). There have been a lot of questionable scenarios, but one of the most bothersome is the report of the undercover police officer in that one scenario where a bunch of people were locked in and arrested within a bank. Apparently he was causing more noise/disruption than anyone else, posing as an unruly protestor, probably to instigate the arrests.
SubJeff on 21/10/2011 at 12:21
Meh.
This is all worthless unless we know the real legal facts. Some saying "I know for a fact" itt doesn't count.
As to the "violence" in that clip - there isn't any. Being dragged out of an area isn't violence. I hurt myself more falling off my bike as a kid. Wimps.
Ostriig on 21/10/2011 at 12:36
Quote Posted by Matthew
Yes, but don't forget it makes it that much harder to have the officer disciplined if they remove their badge numbers prior to engaging in shenanigans, especially if they have riot gear on.
Ah, I see, that's actually a very good point. It's starting to make more sense now.
demagogue on 21/10/2011 at 17:59
Australian street politics always strikes me as a little cartoonish or "old fashioned". The radical lefties are like caricatures of pinko rabblerousers and the police are like caricatures of thuggish muscle for a boss-mayor, like us from the 70s. I don't know what it is about it; maybe it's an illusion from the media or the blogs out there. I know there are reasonable Australians, too. It's just when I read some of the "radicals" or "apologists" blogs that happen to be Australian, or videos like these street protests, it all just looks like from another era, like they have a kind of pure or sincere emotion that we (US & UK) used to have but don't really so much anymore.
Like we have our street protests, but they're not quite -so- innocent they're going to literally kick & scream quite as much and would roll their eyes at that, and the police aren't going to have that look of "sincere utter disgust" on their face so much as tired impatience and also more eye rolling. (And before I get a "kettle-pot-black" response, I'm not going to defend US & UK stupidity either; it was hard to see W as anything *but* a cartoon character... Just seems like Australia has its own "old fashioned" flavor, like something surreally "sincere" about their emotions.) Maybe it's hard to put my feeling into words, and again it might be a bit of an illusion.
Quote Posted by dethtoll
Occupy Cincinnati's been a pretty quiet affair.
Peace in the Middle West! :mad:
