Lovecraftian on 7/9/2007 at 14:21
Just a thread to see who you feel is the Best Villain in the Thief Series.
I'd have to go with Karras. I like Constantine a lot, but he's really just a standard fantasy God invading the world type figure. The Hag is very interesting as we don't know much about her except that she was once human and used the glyphs to stretch out her life, but although i like Thief 3 it has the perhaps the weakest plot to me as i felt it doesn't hold that 'epic struggle' type feeling of the first two games.
The reason i love Karras is because he shows how low men can go. Here is a biologically ordinary man - with no superpowers or use of magic - with a very unordinary accent and intellect. After years of presumed abuse, he conquers adversity and becomes a Hammerite High Priest, only to leave and start his own order that embraces the technological progress that he so desires and whose followers think of him as a father. However, Karras starts to believe the hype that he is special and becomes convinced that he is the greatest prophet of the Master builder. Combined with his hatred for organic life and distrust of other humans, this leads him to try and destroy the entire city to try and create the 'Builder's Paradise'.
Dia on 7/9/2007 at 14:39
My choice for best villain would definitely be Karras. He had such a devious, intricate plot to gain ultimate power; all in all, his scheme was well thought out. Karras wasn't just some bad-assed meanie, he was a conniving, crafty, insane-yet-still-intelligent villain (though unbelievably cruel).
The first time I saw the movie I, Robot, I was reminded of Karras and his plan to rule humanity (except the villain in the movie turned out to be an AI).
Peanuckle on 7/9/2007 at 18:12
I have to go with Constantine and my reasoning is almost the opposite of yours, Lovecratian. ;)
The Trickster in the game was an old deity whose rule had been overthrown by the Hammerites, who were either led by a genuine Builder-god, or some dude who was just spouting lines. (I've never noticed any real physical proof of the Builder's existence in canon, whereas the Trickster steals your friggin eye!).
His goals are basically to restore his rule, so he has a kind of "underdog" thing going on that makes his cause a little more pronounced. Also, despite his frequent categorization as evil, it may be that he (and I apologize for the cliche) is just misunderstood. He feeds and shelters his worshipers and in return, they feed him. If he were truly cruel and wicked then why would the pagans, who seem mostly to be nature loving and maybe even a little naive, cling to their beliefs for so long and against such odds? The book you can find in his mansion even says that his end goal is to get people to fear (often a euphemism for respect) and love him as their god.
As for his wanton slaughter of the Hammerites, well, they screwed him over in the first place, so I would be a hankerin' for some payback myself!
Lovecraftian on 7/9/2007 at 18:15
Quote Posted by Peanuckle
I have to go with Constantine and my reasoning is almost the opposite of yours, Lovecratian. ;)
The Trickster in the game was an old deity whose rule had been overthrown by the Hammerites, who were either led by a genuine Builder-god, or some dude who was just spouting lines. (I've never noticed any real physical proof of the Builder's existence in canon, whereas the Trickster steals your friggin eye!).
His goals are basically to restore his rule, so he has a kind of "underdog" thing going on that makes his cause a little more pronounced. Also, despite his frequent categorization as evil, it may be that he (and I apologize for the cliche) is just misunderstood. He feeds and shelters his worshipers and in return, they feed him. If he were truly cruel and wicked then why would the pagans, who seem mostly to be nature loving and maybe even a little naive, cling to their beliefs for so long and against such odds? The book you can find in his mansion even says that his end goal is to get people to fear (often a euphemism for respect) and love him as their god.
As for his wanton slaughter of the Hammerites, well, they screwed him over in the first place, so I would be a hankerin' for some payback myself!
Yeh, you're right. He's isn't evil, just ruthless - he'd have done anything to restore himself as a god.
Cliftor on 7/9/2007 at 18:52
I vote Karras because I thought his scheme was a little more involved and definately more fun to uncover, investigate and expose.
I know the idea of a "insane guy who wants to destroy creation" may be cliche, but it's no more cliche than Constantine. They're just different villians: Dominator vs. Destroyer. Besides, Karras may even be slightly more interesting because he's a Destroyer who thinks he's a Builder. And I always love religious fanaticism and charlatanism in my plots.
I just wasn't that impressed with the story overall in T1. The first 5 missions were all intro material, one bit of plot with 6, then 5 missions of fetch quests, 1 mission of plot exposition, 1 mission of preperation, 1 finale mission with little story.
I sympathize with Constantines wish to "bring back the old days," but in the end he was just a washed up has-been.
BTW, why did he even need Garret to get the eye? With his power couldn't he have just stormed the cathedral and taken it himself?
SubJeff on 7/9/2007 at 18:53
Constantine, because he's not just a nutjob.
nicked on 7/9/2007 at 19:12
I voted for Constantine, because, out of everything Garrett has ever faced, I imagine he is the only one he ever has nightmares about.
But I wish Viktoria had been on the list! ;)
Benvox2 on 8/9/2007 at 01:49
This is a tough one! But I think the Hag deserves some recognition as her scheme or plot seems to be the ultimate compared to the other 2, She uses all the Glyphs and is only undone by THE final glyph which is the size of the city! She also links in many other characters such as Lauryl and Drept, and without her their is no Shalebridge Cradle!
nicked on 8/9/2007 at 08:27
meh, I didn't think much thought went into the hag. It was like they designed the plot, and then thought "Crap, an old lady ain't scary, let's add a load of cliched screaming faces poking out of her at all angles." Considering how sneaky she's managed to be for the last however-many years, I think it would have been scarier to have her just a normal-looking woman but with sneaking skills to match Garrett's, and a very different, more Thief-like final mission. That last bit of DS was a joke.
