BETRAYED ... or Stealth Games that Don't Allow Stealth in Boss Fights

Digital Nightfall on 24/7/2008 at 14:11

This post is actually about NOLF2, which I am finally playing. The topic pretty much gives away what this rant is about.

This is a very stealth friendly game. A psudo hide-in-shadows mechanic, silent takedowns, and a stealth skill that you can upgrade semi-rpg style as you accrue points from stealing information (i.e. loot). You have to hide bodies to keep the enemies from being alterted, and they have awareness levels alot like dark engine games. If they spot you and you loose them, they get tired of looking and resume the patrol. As I have been playing with a pure stealth focus, I've put most of my character points into stealth and marksmanship (so I can pick off the bad guys at a distance) with a scattering around with the other stats, and have put almost nothing into health or armor. I haven't needed to. Playing this way, I almost never take damage, and there's enough armor and health drops everywhere to keep me topped off no matter how many hit points I actually have.

I am nearly through the game (I suppose) and so far every 'regular' level has been perfectly playable from a stealth standpoint... and then there's the boss battles. During those, the stealth player is pretty much fraked.

So there you are, no place to hide, hardly any cover, given plenty of amo for whatever type of machine gun is in style for that mission, where wave after wave of enemies come at you from all sides until some arbitrary point. I am of course mostly talking about the fucking mimes.

It happens how many times? I don't even think I can remember it all. There's the bit where you have to act as a human shield for the scottish guy, then the horrible horrible chase sequence on the tricycle, and then finally the scene in the submarine base where the little shitty guy is popping up from the hatches and throwing chinese stars at you. Some scenes with the ninjas are also like this, but even though they betray you the same way the ninjas are far easier to deal with, so it wasn't as much of a problem. Doesn't mean they're forgivable. I got through all of those by luck alone and a ton of quickload/quicksave. You can't even 'cheat' by dumping some saved up character points into health before you go into the battles, because if you have 25/25 health, after the upgrade, you have 25/50 health. Big help.

I just landed on the island where the super soldiers are attacking. How much more of this bullshit is the game going to throw at me? Should I waste some skill points on health and armor in anticipation of another stupid boss battle, or do I keep upgrading the skills that I actually use?

Malleus on 24/7/2008 at 14:34

Well, as far as I remember the ending is total action, so act according to that - though the super soldier island is the last location IIRC.

Anyway, I think stealth wasn't very well executed in NOLF, therefore I only used stealth tactics when the game forced me to do so (my biggest problem with it actually). Learning from that, I already regarded stealth abilities as secondary in the sequel, especially when I figured out that guards are respawning. I think neither NOLF game is really meant to be a stealth game.

rachel on 24/7/2008 at 14:42

From my understanding, stealth in NOLF was more of a tactical advantage, rather than a whole playthough strategy. Neither game is suited for full stealth gameplay, but the occasional levels where it's perfectly suited make up for that I think.

On the opposite side of the No-Stealth Boss fights, the thing that irritated me a lot as well was the Mandatory-Stealth missions, where going so much as one inch out of a given path forced you to repeat the entire thing because the baddies saw a shadow move from 500m away...

Mortal Monkey on 24/7/2008 at 19:43

Planescape: Torment. Totally enjoyable up until that point. To add insult to injury, at the only other place where returning from the dead might come in handy, you can't.

van HellSing on 24/7/2008 at 19:54

Metal Gear Solid. End of topic.

Zillameth on 24/7/2008 at 20:15

Deus Ex does not allow for stealth at some points, either. It's not exactly forbidden, but it's nearly useless due to layout. But neither NOLF2 nor DX are stealth games the way Thief is.

I agree that the true problem is when game doesn't keep to its own convention. Stealth games that force confrontation are one side, and action games with obligatory stealth levels are on the other. Games like NOLF2 and DX at least provide viable mechanics for both kinds of gameplay. Some games don't, but they require players to play against their own rules anyway, and that's where the real tragedy starts.

Planescape: Tormet made me angry at one point too, for a very similar reason. For some 3/4 of the plot, it puts strong emphasis on dialogues, simple puzzles and social skills. It's a bit of a traditional adventure game coupled with standard AD&D combat that is mostly nonobligatory. And then, near the end of the game, there is this long part where proportions are reversed: lots of fighting plus a few token dialogues. On my first playthrough, I didn't finish the game at all.

june gloom on 24/7/2008 at 20:36

Quote Posted by van HellSing

Metal Gear Solid. End of topic.

Less so in Snake Eater. Fighting the Ocelot unit is best done with stealth, taking them out one by one; and fighting The End is harrowing.

van HellSing on 24/7/2008 at 20:48

Pity I don't have a PS2. I don't think anything could persuade me to buy a stationary console.

heretic on 24/7/2008 at 21:22

Dark Messiah of Might and Magic-

Stealth works quite well sporadically, but it's far from consistant. I don't remember stealth playing a part in any of the boss fights.

As far as NOLF 2, any advantage stealth brought was offset by the constant spawning of enemies, on levels where that occured anyways.

I did love the trailer park tornado level though, stealth or no.

Gambit on 24/7/2008 at 23:51

Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines.

It´s certainly useful to use stealth, and the obfuscate discipline, when you´re a Nosferatu because otherwise you would have serious trouble breaking the masquerade all the time.

But you still need to deal with some bosses.