Malygris on 10/6/2007 at 21:52
Quote Posted by foldy
Oh, then get the fuck out of here already if you're not interested in any pre-release Fallout 3 discussion.
Quote:
They'll make Fallblivion - "open-ended RPG".
Not to worry -- masses of kids will be very happy.
Gosh yes, a year and a half of that kind of "discussion" sure will be swell!
Jason Moyer on 10/6/2007 at 23:48
Quote Posted by Malygris
Gosh yes, a year and a half of that kind of "discussion" sure will be swell!
I think for those of us who are eagerly anticipating the game, any sort of interviews, articles, screenshots, or trailers that are released will be happily welcome.
And for those of us who don't want to hear that shit, we can happily ignore it. It's not like anyone is being FORCED to read a Fallout 3 article or participate in a discussion on the game. Your participation in this thread is a simple matter of free will.
Malygris on 11/6/2007 at 03:08
I'm "eagerly anticipating" the game myself. Interviews, screenshots, articles and trailers are fantastic, and I'm looking forward to that sort of material as the game's development progresses. Intelligent, insightful commentary is also highly desirable. Snide comments couched in idiotic attempts at cleverness, or howling about Bethesda's treatment of the franchise the same way you would if you were diagnosed with brain cancer, on the other hand, is not.
Koki on 11/6/2007 at 03:09
Man. Do I have strenght and will to start this all again?
It's easy to say that "It's not the camera that makes Fallout", it's harder to back up that words. It's not like the view is completely separate entity, something absolutely unrelated to the gameplay that you can change indiscriminately. No, it is pretty fucking important and almost dictates the gameplay itself. Follow this simple logic: Fallout was a hardcore cRPG. So was Fallout 2. They were as similiar to p&p as a videogame could be. One of these things was the fact that player skill with controls had almost no affect on the character skills(Yes I know you all already puke of that topic but bear with me for a moment). You click the enemy, the random die rolls, modifiers apply, etc. and you hit or not. Now, the only way to actually make such separation possible is to allow the player to make decisions and controls calmly and without rush. That's why it was turn based(It could be done also in real time with pause though). Now, have you ever seen a turn based game in FPP or TPP? No. That's why it was isometric.
C comes from B comes from A. Change any letter, and all chain goes to shit. That's why fallout fans demant isometry and turn-based gameplay. Because making it anything else unltimately changes the core gameplay.
Well not that it matters now, it's almost confirmed it's FPP and released on 360 and PS3, which pretty much settles the deal(Cursor-based interfaces on console games do not happen).
Talgor on 11/6/2007 at 05:17
I'm always somewhat puzzled by people who define the quality of RPGs based on the *mechanics* of the game... The more dice rolls, the better it is? Sounds more like simulation, wargames, rather than role-playing.
To me, what makes the Fallout games good RPGs is that you can *play a role* so well, and your RP choices have an impact on the game world. The purest forms of non-computer roleplaying require little or no dice at all. The mechanics can actually get in the way of RP, but they're there to make the act of collaborative storytelling (which is what playing a traditional RPGs is) easier, especially when playing with people who aren't that good at it.
Talking about how you crave to have your to-hit rolls instead of aiming a blow or a shot yourself is more talking about how good a wargame / combat simulation it is, not really about how good a role-playing game it is...
....or maybe I'm just tired of RPGs, on paper and in computers, seeming to be 95% about killing and nothing but killing... I think we've got the role of "killer of things" down already, could we do something else for a change?
Jason Moyer on 11/6/2007 at 05:48
Quote Posted by Malygris
Snide comments couched in idiotic attempts at cleverness, or howling about Bethesda's treatment of the franchise the same way you would if you were diagnosed with brain cancer, on the other hand, is not.
Ah, I gotcha. I think I misunderstood what you were saying, as I pretty much agree. I've never really understood why people feel the need to go into threads/forums for something they don't like and proceed to hijack the thread by complaining repeatedly, altho I'd be lying if I said I never did it myself.
Jason Moyer on 11/6/2007 at 05:54
Quote Posted by Talgor
The purest forms of non-computer roleplaying require little or no dice at all.
That's a hard thing to explain to a lot of people. In our childhood role playing sessions, while we didn't go to the ridiculous extremes of LARPing or anything, we tended to completely ignore dice rolls. I always enjoyed when someone in the party did something idiotic, because our best DM would typically come up with incredible ways of killing of them off.
I think that sort of role playing background is why I really favor games that make the mechanics more and more transparent, to the ultimate point where we wouldn't be able to see any of the statistics outside of an editor. Technology has advanced to the point where we should be able to get feedback on most things without having a pile of virtual dice rolls thrown in our face. As a character progresses (as they tend to do in RPG's), there's no reason that progression can't be reflected in things like the character's appearance and response to player input. When a stat or a skill changes, it should be immediately obvious from the actual gameplay instead of having to be fed to the player by a pile of statistics.
Martek on 11/6/2007 at 10:11
Quote Posted by Koki
Now, have you ever seen a turn based game in FPP or TPP? No. That's why it was isometric.
KOTOR 1 & 2?
Rogue Keeper on 11/6/2007 at 10:36
Hello 1996 Incubation.
First person view, virtual dice rolls and turn based combat aren't mutually exclusive. There could be even option to switch between first person view and isometric battlefield overview during combat. I believe there will be also turn based/real time combad switch.
N'Al on 11/6/2007 at 10:46
Quote Posted by Koki
Now, have you ever seen a turn based game in FPP or TPP? No. That's why it was isometric.
The Might and Magics come to mind.
+ hate all the people who came up with better examples sooner. :mad:
