HybridVision on 11/6/2007 at 14:05
Quote Posted by Martek
KOTOR 1 & 2?
turn-based. That's like saying Baldur's Gate is turn based.
[edit: Didn't see that the poster above had equated turn-based with RT/pause. Tho I've never thought those two were interchangeable.]
Malygris on 11/6/2007 at 14:24
Combat in both those games was turn-based, though. The underlying mechanics may have been very effectively camouflaged by the developers, but the combat unfolded on a fairly standard turn-based system.
Rogue Keeper on 11/6/2007 at 14:28
And of course there is not a TB combat like TB combat - because it may or may not be based on action points.
N'Al on 11/6/2007 at 14:44
Quote Posted by Malygris
Combat in both those games was turn-based, though. The underlying mechanics may have been very effectively camouflaged by the developers, but the combat unfolded on a fairly standard turn-based system.
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell,
The 'real' TB system in ToEE or FO works like this: Each character has his or her distinct turn during which
noone else can act (with few exceptions).
The 'fake' TB system in the IE or KOTOR games works differently: Whilst my character is preparing, for example, to unleash a fireball, the enemy goblins are firing arrows at me,
at the same time.
I would say that's why a lot of people don't consider the system in IE or KOTOR to be a real TB system.
Having said all this, I don't really intend to kick-start another "TB vs. non-TB" discussion yet again, so forget anything I said straight away...
Malygris on 11/6/2007 at 15:16
Yes, BG or KOTOR turn-based is different than FO turn-based, but they're variations on a theme: you can do this much shit in this much time, and then you take your lumps while the other guy does the same. Clicking away madly on the bad guy accomplishes nothing.
But I agree that this isn't a debate we need to (re-)start. Referring to it as "point-based combat" instead? Maybe that would simplify things?
There has to be some system of mechanics underlying the whole thing. Until game AI has evolved to the point where it possesses actual creativity and can tell a story by making up interesting shit as it goes, there has to be numbers and formulas and very specific methods for resolving each possibility within the game. I like the execution of those equations to be as transparent as possible during the course of gameplay, but not to the point where it absolutely excludes the player from knowing what's going on underneath.
N'Al on 11/6/2007 at 15:48
Quote Posted by Malygris
you can do
this much shit in
this much time, and then you take your lumps while the other guy does the same.
How is this any different to a 'real-time' FPS, for example?
Malygris on 11/6/2007 at 16:10
Quote Posted by N'Al
How is this any different to a 'real-time' FPS, for example?
I would think it fairly obvious, and regardless of whether or not I'm correct in that assumption, seriously, I ain't getting involved in this.
To steer the conversation toward more relevant shores: if FO3 was being designed with an isometric view, I'd be beyond disappointed if turn-based combat wasn't also a part of it. Specific gameplay mechanics are less important (to me) than the quality and integrity of the setting, story, characters, and of course the gameplay in whatever form it may take, but some aspects of the design are inherently a part of others: if the view is isometric, then the combat
must be turn-based.
Talgor on 11/6/2007 at 17:08
Quote Posted by Malygris
if the view is isometric, then the combat
must be turn-based.
Oh, yeah. I mean X-COM 3: Apocalypse didn't have an isometric, real-time combat system, we were just hallucinating it... ;)
(and it was a good one, too)
Thirith on 11/6/2007 at 17:14
Most pre-3d card real-time strategy games used an isometric view. Hell, most current RTS games use iso.
Malygris on 11/6/2007 at 17:42
Didn't play X-Com 3. Something about it being in real-time, you see. ;)
Furthermore, and I suppose I could've emphasized the point a bit more, in my example I was referring specifically to Fallout, not to games in general. I may not care much for the RTS genre, but I'm not so far gone as to pretend it doesn't exist.
