The_Raven on 3/7/2007 at 12:52
Quote Posted by Zygoptera
My two problems with it: firstly, they're dolls heads and there's no logical basis for getting stat increases from dolls heads. Easily fixed by making them F2 style memory chips or similar, though really, just about anything would be better than dolls heads. Secondly, it sounds suspiciously like the 'find ## rare plants' quest from Oblivion, which was basically a reward for wandering around near water.
Yeah, I agree with you on the fact that they should be F2 style memory chips. I haven't played Oblivon, so I can't comment on the "find ## rare plants' quest" and its similarities to the doll heads. For those who think I'm flip-flopping, I had previously said, "that I could live with it"; not, that I approve of Bethesda's design choices. I think the only thing that gives me hope for the game design is that Emil is the lead designer on the project.
Matthew on 3/7/2007 at 12:54
Maybe they're Small Soldiers-style dolls containing memory chips? :p
Jason Moyer on 3/7/2007 at 21:12
Quote Posted by Zygoptera
Just fired Oblivion up to check in case I'd had a memory bypass. Basically the limitations are that you can't fast travel in combat or to certain places you haven't visited yet. In other words, 100% consistent with what I wrote originally.
The only things you can fast travel to without visiting them are cities and the 3 downloadable lairs. Saying you can't fast travel to "certain places" before you visit them is misleading, since in this case "certain places" refers to almost the entire map. In Shivering Isles you can't fast travel anywhere without visiting it, which means you have to traverse the entire width of the map in order to get past the beginning of the main quest.
I really don't understand the uproar over fast travel at all. I wish someone would make a mod that marked the cities/lairs as "known but not visited" when starting a new game (there's one that completely removes the cities, IIRC) but ultimately, 200 hours of playing Oblivion involved a lot more action than 200 hours of playing Morrowind and spending around half of that time travelling to anything that wasn't near a travel system. Even the propylon index official plugin barely helped with the repetitive travel.
Phatose on 3/7/2007 at 23:02
There's more trouble with fast travel then just being able to go to major cities instantly. More problematic is the lack of any risk on that travel. In the oblivion scheme, if Cave A is a the middle of a wasteland filled with man eating poisonous leopard frogs and man and leopard frog eating fire breathing dragons, that first trip there is hazardous. The return trip home, however, as well as all subsequent trips, are completely risk free.
More tellingly, consider the vampire who hasn't fed in 3 days and decides to take a cross country journey. By rights, this should be a very perilous journey, dodging the sun itself. Fast travel though....boom, you're there. And you can even arrive midday, where you'll start cooking immediately, but never on the fast travel journey, because with fast travel, the journey isn't just fast, it's non-existent.
Now, I'm not against fast travel per se, as I really do think just plain walking from here to there is ungodly boring. But it needs to be interruptible, and really needs to take into account things like "can't walk in the daytime" or "radioactive hazard" or "Mountain in the middle of a sea of lava and I sold my pegasus for lunch money."
Zygoptera on 3/7/2007 at 23:36
My problem isn't with fast travel, it isn't really even with the implementation in Oblivion- the only fundamental problem I have with it is that it is unrealistic in that it is instantaneous (in fact my main problem with Oblivion can be summed up with the word 'unrealistic', I simply cannot maintain a suspension of disbelief), random encounters on fast traveling in Oblivion would be somewhat pointless due to the indigenous level scaling scheme- it's the implication that a similar system would be used in F3 when the old system was better.
I'd also say that there are some positives from the new previews too. The dialogue system sounds a vast improvement on Oblivion, the single quest we have details on sounds at least OK (the justification for setting the nuke off sounds dumb though- what 'development' could you make on a radioactive crater?) and the level scaling system, while it may be open to exploits, sounds improved too.
Jason Moyer on 4/7/2007 at 00:21
Quote Posted by Zygoptera
the only fundamental problem I have with it is that it is unrealistic in that it is instantaneous
You mean in terms of real time? In game time, it's definitely not instantaneous (altho I don't think enough time typically passes to be realistic).
Phatose on 4/7/2007 at 01:29
In all due fairness, the travel itself actually is instantaneous in game time, with a time jump ahead once you reach the destination. Thus our friend Mr. Vampire doesn't burn.
Jason Moyer on 4/7/2007 at 02:30
Time passes, sure, but it doesn't actually simulate the travel itself beyond moving the clock ahead.
I don't really care either way on having random encounters while travelling, but it would be nice if it did a bit of actual simulation of the trip.
Mr.WaeseL on 4/7/2007 at 09:45
Quote Posted by The_Raven
The collectible dolls' heads which improve you stats, I can live with that as long as it's a very minor increase and something like getting +1 perception for finding a well hidden secret.
But +1 perception isn't a very minor increase; something like +5% small guns would be.
The_Raven on 4/7/2007 at 15:02
True enough; it is SPECIAL after all.
