R Soul on 16/1/2009 at 18:23
Come to think of it, pagans tend to use plurals in lots of places, but Weythran doesn't. He seems to use a 'toned down' version, a sort of mixture of pagan and ordinary. I noticed something similar in the exchange between the two housebreakers in Life of the Party, so I think that when they're young, people from, say, the slums pick up a few ways of speaking from pagans who live amongst them.
jtr7 on 17/1/2009 at 19:19
I must be on Winter Cat's "Ignore" list.:laff:
kamyk on 18/1/2009 at 05:00
Quote Posted by Winter Cat
For exampe "Be you ignoring me" is in pagan style, normally it should be written "Are you ignoring me".
Using be in a sentence like that is also a trademark of folklore pirate/smuggler lingo however.
Example:"Yarr, I be searchin' for Cap'n Blightey's buried treasures matey."
It is by no means unique to pagans.
Actually a pagan would be more likely to say "Be's"
"Be's you a sneaksie thiefsie?"
Edit:Text in question paganized...
page_0: "Blackrat -
Thirdsy messages this week, no answerings again! \
Be's you ignorings me, or be caughtsy in your own traps? \
Drops a note for me's or I flys the city, for once the \
ratsy be trappeded, his cousin be's not far outside the cage.
- Weythran"
jtr7 on 18/1/2009 at 05:59
:thumb:
That particular message is left at the marketplace, on the window sill of the produce store, on a rolled papyrus, in Trace the Courier (which takes place AFTER the Sheriff's been assassinated). Note that the Pagan courier has nothing to do with it. Mixed concepts for fanon speculation, but I still believe along the lines of R Soul's comment. They're just more rural and poor, but act nothing like pagans. More like lost boys, possibly stevedores' punk sons.
Blackrat's message to Weythran about his snitching scheme is found in Bay 2, "Rare Artifacts", of Building B at Rampone's. Rats and ships.
From MiscB15, in Ambush!: "The Sheriff's men are, as you said, most efficient, and watching the rabble fall over themselves in panic afforded me more entertainment than a good month of theater. Might we avail ourselves of this street-cleaning farce again this weekend?"
Found in Ambush!, in the Crippled Burrick Pub, crumpled up, on the floor, under the table nearest the door, is our MiscB16 note from W.O. Morgan to W.S. Harwin about the positive side of bribing of informants. Does that mean Sergeant Harwin read the note while waiting for Garrett to come in, then crumpled it in disgust?
Since we're tossing wild-yet-possible connections out here, pretending they are pagan, what if the friendly pagan in the boarded-up house outside Truart's Estate is Blackrat? What if he's the one who dug the sheriff's grave and has been waiting and watching?:joke: Or what if Blackrat's female, and that's her down in Truart's dungeon? Mike Chrzanowski was the primary level designer for Shipping... and Receiving and Blackmail.
Beleg Cúthalion on 18/1/2009 at 08:19
Sorry for interrupting but what exactly does the Pagan dialect sound like in English? Is it rather cute (what it seems to me) or just strange, deranged etc...? The German TMA Pagans sound rather soft and for TDS there hasn't been a synchronisation...yet.
jtr7 on 18/1/2009 at 09:08
Speaking for myself:
Yeah, overall they sound cute, innocent, and amusing in their threats, when they aren't actually following through on those threats, or voiced demonically. That is, when they aren't annoying, which I find has mostly to do with the voice-actor, and extended dialogue. I was very much reminded of Gollum/Sméagol, and found the sound quite reptilian, either subtly, or demonic in its high-pitched, writhing, whipping, hissing quality. And I never thought of pirates.
The TDP/Gold paganese was, for me, never annoying, only odd, yet fascinating and violent, and it was delivered quite fluently and comfortably by the actors. At least, it sounds like it. Dan Thron, Joffrey Spaulding, and Terri Barous/Brosius had the delivery nailed.
In TMA it became less fascinating, far less violent, more awkwardly forced, and too cute--they were victims. I can see why that decision was made, but I feel it was taken too far. The other actors struggled with it. The Apebeasts and Viktoria did not disappoint, even though the Apebeasts' conversations were all comical and totally non-threatening.
In TDS it was mostly annoying and cute, never really scary, rarely natural sounding, and introduced and abused the word "bes". In TDP/Gold, the word "bes" was never used, but one instance of "besie" was. In TMA, "bes" is seen in two texts, in the pagan village, and spoken once, by Lotus--the acting for which I find cringe-inducing, though I do feel for the character. Thankfully, in TDS, there were some moments where the paganese worked well enough.
I cannot say I understand the change over time: if it was deliberate, or if the original mindset for writing paganese was simply lost and could not be recaptured.
kamyk on 18/1/2009 at 09:28
Quote Posted by jtr7
And I never thought of pirates.
Exactly my point regarding the aforementioned text. It definitely isn't pagan speak.
Regarding "paganese" (as jtr7 has dubbed it:thumb:), since I started first with TDS I got the full blown (overblown) version of it right off the bat. I am not one to judge dialects, slang, or otherwise "corrupted" versions of language. That is how languages evolve (or devolve as the case may be). I did find it rather over the top, but it doesn't really annoy me. Strange, and deranged would be good ways to describe it. Pehaps a little "cute" too, as it tends to put you off your guard. I think the point of it was that they were trying to show people with very little standard education, and in that, they succeeded. It reminded me of Smeagol too. Consider Smeagol's character. Poorly educated, deranged, close to nature... Wait a minute... Did they just use him as an archetype for the whole pagan community? :wot:
jtr7 on 18/1/2009 at 09:38
:laff: :thumb:
I started with TMA and had the same reaction to the paganese as I do now. When I finally played TDP, then Gold, I was impressed by how much richer it was. I would hope the pagan dialect wouldn't devolve so fast in only five years of City time-line, out of proportion to the others.:o Poor paggies...:( Wait, that sounds like a cultural slur.:eww:
(smiley quota exceeded!)
Yes, country bumpkins, with a touch of Chaos Beast.
Beleg Cúthalion on 18/1/2009 at 11:20
Ok, thanks to you, that's something I can work with. Well, should I ever need to...
Some posts here made me wonder (by employing fragments of knowledge about religion in history) if the pagans are not only a religious but a social group with a grey (sorry: green) area in the middle instead of a border. From what social classes do they recruit their members, if they make a distinction at all between "fulltime" Pagans and not-really-Pagans..? Heck, these are the things I'd like to see in an FM. Not superficial mansions or churches or a vertical contest... :erg:
jtr7 on 18/1/2009 at 11:32
Some stuff:
I tend to think that they are the rural citizens, the farmers, the Fellahdeen, the pantheists, and drawing from druids, and wiccans, but with their blood-as-plant-food rituals as their primary ceremony to increase their magic. More plants, more magic, so I would imagine their special places would be lush. And they probably don't recruit so much as take in outcasts who fairly agree with their views. There's mention of a Trickster Temple, they have accurate prophetic visions, and we've only seen the Gathering Place and tree-houses to imagine what a temple may look like.
