Captain Spandex on 17/10/2009 at 10:48
Subjective, your argument about levels needing to be in less confined spaces as a result of third person's inclusion makes sense at first glance. However, if you've played, for example, Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, a game which is entirely executed in third person, but nevertheless features numerous levels with corridors every bit as constrained as The Metal Age (Off the top of my head, the Hokkaido level where you're running around in tight corridors with paper walls that you can grab enemies through) then you would know there are exceptions to the rule.
Perhaps it's not a good example (given that most people consider it a turd) but Velvet Assassin was third person and featured tight areas with low ceilings in many places. And while it was panned by many critics, it is widely believed by even its most vocal critics to have excelled in the atmosphere and immersion department.
Case in point:
Inline Image:
http://xbox360media.gamespy.com/xbox360/image/article/900/900990/velvet-assassin-20080820015938975.jpgYou really need the sound to understand the immersive and atmospheric aspects, but you can plainly see the ceilings are not high. And the atramentous environ in no way had to be 'brightened' either.
Bakerman on 17/10/2009 at 12:45
Off the top of my head, I remember getting into some very small vents in Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. Can't be bothered looking for screenies, though, and I can't hook the Xbox up to the TV we have at the moment.
jtr7 on 17/10/2009 at 12:46
Links to walkthroughs and videos are welcome.:angel:
I can look it up if you can remember the location, name of the place, something to watch for.
jtr7 on 17/10/2009 at 13:14
Excellent! Very good! Thanks!
Swimming in pipelines videos?
Good dynamic, player-directed, rope- or chain-swinging, gameplay vids, showing the PC model hanging decently while the rope is moving according to the physics engine, not a pre-designed animation?
Point me in the right direction, fellas.
And then that leaves the one biggie question:
How much time should the animators spend on movements we could take for granted in the older titles because there was no body to worry about?
Whether or not there are body-awareness and 3rd-person in Thief 4, the game should be able to allow the player to do everything in the older titles, and new things none of the games could, without the acrobatic, parkour, blah blah. Movement first, and the animations need to keep up, and not take control from the player.:)
Malleus on 17/10/2009 at 13:21
Quote Posted by jtr7
Good dynamic, player-directed, rope- or chain-swinging, gameplay vids, showing the PC model hanging decently while the rope is moving according to the physics engine, not a pre-designed animation?
No swinging or jumping from it though, just climbing.
(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9fnzJYF58k)
at 1:15
EDIT: It may not look obvious from the video, but the rope has physics, and when the character isn't climbing, just hanging, it hangs like a guy on a rope should.
Quote:
Swimming in pipelines videos?
Swimming is there, but no vent size tunnels, just big ones.
(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsKZJCQOhwQ)
at 1:38
Quote:
How much time should the animators spend on movements we could take for granted in the older titles because there was no body to worry about?
Yeah, this is what bothers me too. There are more important things, IMO.
jtr7 on 17/10/2009 at 14:03
Again, thank you very much!:cool:
The swimming tunnel's decent, but if it could be shrunk by a third, it would not only match approximately, but would feel more tense.
I thought I could see the rope moving from his feet down.
Chade on 18/10/2009 at 21:43
Eh, I was going to comment on the whole third person thing, but then yesterday I actually got an oppurtunity to play the first level of Mirror's Edge, which brings me back on topic, and ...
... boy, the movement in ME really does feel good. Probably the most natural movement I've seen in a video game. Even better then thief (although you can't really say after just ten minutes playtime, and also they are very different games).
Bakerman on 19/10/2009 at 03:08
I was going to post up some SC:CT videos, but Malleus beat me to it :p. But I would point out - notice how claustrophobic and restrictive it feels when you're going through a tiny vent as Sam Fisher? I'd much rather that than to just be able to shrink like in Thief or Battlefield. Crawling through a vent on your belly isn't a comfortable position, and without body awareness, you don't get as much of a sense of that.
IMO.
I really want to see how Brink turns out - and ArmA 2 is high on my list of games to play. Its control model looks absolutely (
http://www.arma2.com/arma-2-developeras-diary-no1-basic-controls_en.html) fantastic. However, those games are shooters that don't require as much fine control or movement abilities as Thief. Just wanted to bring them up.
