The Shroud on 23/11/2009 at 22:32
There are 11 pages worth of examples.
driver on 24/11/2009 at 04:46
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
Are you really that unable to provide any examples of the positive aspects of body awareness that would encourage it's implementation that you need to start strawmaning what I've said? You could at least try.
Oh for... I was pointing out the absurdity of your statement by turning it round, not strawmaning. :erg:
You're deliberately ignoring the examples given to you then proclaiming that there aren't any. This is why this thread is 12 pages long and will never end.
Why do you have such difficulty understanding that some people find it very disorientating not having a corporeal body in a first person game? Yes, you don't really notice you own arms when you're doing something with them in your field of vision, but if they were to become invisible tomorrow, you'd sure as hell feel disorientated even though you could control them just as before.
Yes, the original Thief games didn't have BA, most FPS games to date haven't, but that's because it was difficult to implement. But we've had several games that have not only done it successfully, but actually enhanced the experience in doing so. So if it can be done and done well, why not include it?
The Shroud on 24/11/2009 at 05:34
Quote Posted by driver
You're deliberately ignoring the examples given to you then proclaiming that there aren't any. This is why this thread is 12 pages long and will never end.
Thank you!
Quote Posted by driver
Yes, you don't really notice you own arms when you're doing something with them in your field of vision, but if they were to become invisible tomorrow, you'd sure as hell feel disorientated even though you could control them just as before.
Exactly! You hit the nail on the head.
Platinumoxicity and others opposed to BA -
several of us obviously feel this is important (the length of this thread is overwhelming proof of that). That alone should be enough justification. Do
you have to agree that it's important? Of course not. Do you have to concede that plenty of people don't feel the way you do?
Yes.
To repeat myself yet again, I suggested there be an on/off option, as there already is for many things in the game. I advocate that for the very same reason that the game currently allows you to disable bow-zoom, head-bob, freelook, and whatever else detracts from one person's or another's personal enjoyment of gameplay -
so that people with different tastes and preferences can all enjoy the game equally.And you don't even like
that idea (I'm assuming, since you've avoided commenting on it altogether). Now, I don't expect you to care a great deal about what other people want if it's not the same as what you want - but to oppose even the
option for those people to increase their personal enjoyment of the game,
without affecting your gameplay in the slightest, simply because you think what they enjoy is silly? That's just wrong.
jtr7 on 24/11/2009 at 06:38
What percentage of players are needed, that struggle through the game having no sense of their bodies to such an extent, to make this important enough to implement for everyone?
You became fans, somehow, or is it only of TDS?
As I've said, it will be anyway...
Bakerman on 24/11/2009 at 07:48
Quote:
You became fans, somehow, or is it only of TDS?
Ooh, cheap shot.
Quote:
So if it can be done and done well, why not include it?
Time and budget. A fair enough argument, but I happen to feel it would be worthwhile in any case.
EDIT: Wow, this thread has spawned some unique tags. :p
The Shroud on 24/11/2009 at 10:39
Quote Posted by jtr7
What percentage of players are needed, that struggle through the game having no sense of their bodies to such an extent, to make this important enough to implement for everyone?
I'd say roughly the percentage of people in this thread who are pro BA.
Quote Posted by jtr7
You became fans, somehow, or is it only of TDS?
I became a fan when TDP first came out. TDS was my least favorite of the trilogy. And no, it wasn't because I had arms and legs. Frankly, TDS has absolutely nothing to do with this debate. Why? Because (as has been said over...and over...
and over...and over...) TDS's implementation of body-awareness is
not what we want.
Platinumoxicity on 24/11/2009 at 13:12
The only game so far that has a good system of body awareness that I've seen is Mirror's Edge. And even it has some dumb design flaws. For some odd reason, when you're looking down at the floor, your horizontal mouse sensitivity goes down and you turn sloooo... Also, ME is an object-based platforming game like Assassin's Creed, so it locks the player into positions on objects, and moves using a scripted path and animations on that object.
Thief 4 should have a body awareness system similar to F.E.A.R. where the movement is determined by the player's input, and the body follows the player.
And I'm not opposed to body awareness because there's no way to avoid it creating problems, because there is. I don't like the idea because to make it work the way you want without making it look stupid, you need to use additional resources to develop it, which could be used for more important things like perfecting the movement system. TDS did the exact opposite, made a body awareness system and couldn't care less about the movement.
When you make a body awareness system that doesn't interfere with the movement in any way, you need to remember that it can't be made to look perfect. If you spend all your time looking at how the arms and legs move in the environment, you'll notice things like: One foot standing on thin air, a foot or an arm clipping into the geometry, and all the other little visual bugs that are really hard to fix when maintaining the perfect 1st person movement system.
If by some odd reason EM manages to create body awareness in the same horrible style as in TDS, I hope they release a good SDK so that fans can return the movement to the original T2-ish state.
New Horizon on 24/11/2009 at 14:07
It's a gimmick.
If it's going to be in T4...they had better create a hybrid system that allows turning it off and using the classic 1st person system.
driver on 24/11/2009 at 15:22
I get the impression that there are people in this thread that will only be satisfied if T4 is released on the Dark Engine.
Platinumoxicity on 24/11/2009 at 15:42
Quote Posted by driver
I get the impression that there are people in this thread that will only be satisfied if T4 is released on the Dark Engine.
You do mean "people that will only be satisfied if T4 is released on an equally good or better engine than the Dark Engine."? In other words, better than what TDS was.
