New Horizon on 17/12/2009 at 20:09
Quote Posted by Vae
The sad part was that I had thought that the trend would continue to expand and gaming would become even more immersive...but it sadly did not...:(
Quite true sadly. A vast majority of the games out there today are nothing more than point and click, hand holding, wastes of my time.
We might as well just play this.
(
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1008)
stutteringchimp on 17/12/2009 at 20:22
ROTFLMAO
Sulphur on 17/12/2009 at 20:31
Quote Posted by Vae
Are you joking?
Nope.
Quote:
When T1/T2 came on the scene, they revolutionized immersive gameplay.
The sad part was that I had thought that the trend would continue to expand and gaming would become even more immersive...but it sadly did not...:(
I had thought this basic truth was self evident.
Do you really think that an opinion is an absolute truth?
I understand how dear you hold the games to your heart, but there are people out there who don't view them as the second coming. I think they're stupendously well-crafted and well-written games on a level that very few have been able to achieve, but I'm not about to blindly defend them or enshrine them as some sort of testament to gaming perfection.
T1/T2 didn't 'revolutionise' immersion. They refined the experience. System Shock and Ultima Underworld arguably did the revolutionising - and that, too, is a matter of opinion. For all you know, the vast majority would nominate Wolfenstein or Doom or Catacomb 3D instead.
This is all tangential to body awareness, though. While you might find TMA the most immersive thing ever, I may find that, say, Mirror's Edge or Riddick or Fallout 3 or even god-damn
Zork trumps it in that regard.
Different genres, different experiences, different tastes. Surely there's enough room here for a difference of opinion.
Platinumoxicity on 18/12/2009 at 10:26
Quote Posted by Sulphur
This is all tangential to body awareness, though. While you might find TMA the most immersive thing ever, I may find that, say, Mirror's Edge or Riddick or Fallout 3 or even god-damn
Zork trumps it in that regard.
I'm not here to try to debunk your opinions' legitimacies, but I think there were some spastic neural complications in Faith's muscles in ME that were just completely unnecessary additions in the body awareness that only made the game worse in those areas. The BA in ME is good, but with some stupid decisions. The movement system in Riddick is pretty bad, but that game is not designed for acrobatic moves but good(Very good) sneaking and nifty combat. Also Riddick has many 3rd person scenes that I'm not a big fan of. But Fallout 3... Dude, that game's movement system is straight from Wolfenstein 3d. It's simply a basic "wasd" slapped on the 3rd person movement, which BTW is just as simple. It doesn't use physics in the movement and the 3rd person animations look like ass but it's simplicity makes it good enough to play. Even though the environments are 2-dimensional plains and mazes(yes they are) and there's no place where you couldn't just walk to, Bethesda didn't even try to make the 3rd person animations or model/world dynamics well nor did they make 1st person body awareness, because that game is not about that.
Body awareness in a game like Thief is the hardest one to make. It's not just that the feet of the model must find the right heights when going up stairs or pull the weapon closer when hugging a wall. There's so much more stuff. And with 3rd person also, a small developing team with limited resources shouldn't even try. It could end badly.
Sulphur on 18/12/2009 at 19:19
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
I'm not here to try to debunk your opinions' legitimacies
I respect what your views may be on the subject, but did you have to spend the rest of your post trying to do exactly this?
Also, dude, I appreciate the technical breakdown on FO3, but I already knew all that. It doesn't have body awareness. The last two games in that sentence were a joke, or did you not get the Zork reference?
Quote:
Body awareness in a game like Thief is the hardest one to make. It's not just that the feet of the model must find the right heights when going up stairs or pull the weapon closer when hugging a wall. There's so much more stuff. And with 3rd person also, a small developing team with limited resources shouldn't even try. It could end badly.
You know, I'm of the opinion that just because something is hard to do doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted. I'd rather have a game try to do something new than let the fear of failure dictate what it becomes.
Many people forget that when Thief came out, LGS had no idea whether it would sell or not. But they had faith in what they were doing (well, mostly. Doubts about whether FPSers would take to it was the reason why TDP had all those zombies).
If it weren't for LGS trying to take risks, you wouldn't even have had the first person sneaker genre in the first place. And body awareness, to be frank, isn't even as big a risk as tackling the Thief universe and making an entirely new story in it sans input from anyone from the original team.
New Horizon on 18/12/2009 at 20:58
I want my ingame counterpart to have 'self' awareness, so that no matter what I tell it to do, it will only do what it wants to do. If it doesn't feel like robbing some place that day, maybe it will just stand there while I repeatedly mash the keys into oblivion. That's what I would like. Maybe he'll even go find a hot female AI and start a family, leave that life of crime behind.
Sulphur on 18/12/2009 at 22:33
(
http://www.thesims3.com/) Knock yourself out.
Don't let the turgid wall of mediocrity hit you on the way out.
jtr7 on 19/12/2009 at 03:38
Are you responding to NH, Sulph'?:weird:
Fafhrd on 19/12/2009 at 06:42
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
Body awareness in a game like Thief is the hardest one to make. It's not just that the feet of the model must find the right heights when going up stairs or pull the weapon closer when hugging a wall.
Jesus christ. (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2q5kuic6HA&feature=player_embedded) You realize there are freely available extensions for free to license engines that do this stuff, right? You really think systems like that can't be easily adapted to whatever engine EM is using? Or (more likely) that the engine doesn't
already do it?Quote:
There's so much more stuff.
Like what? Are you going to insist that it needs to carefully navigate the feet around loose items on the floor again (Ignoring that in an equivalent situation in Thief 1 or 2, Garrett would just merrily kick them out of the way)?
Sulphur on 19/12/2009 at 11:45
Quote Posted by jtr7
Are you responding to NH, Sulph'?:weird:
Yep. All in jest, of course.
Well, mostly in jest.
