Muzman on 19/4/2013 at 12:09
No, but if they're Chechen it's very likely is all.
demagogue on 19/4/2013 at 13:42
Why Chechnyans would want to go after Americans is bizarre. There's tension with Russia here, and they could maybe get a more sympathetic hearing on their desire for autonomy here than in Russia. Or might have. The place is going to be reviled now. Unless their motive was something else... I guess we'll have to wait for more information to understand the motivation. (Edit: If I understand Chechnayan terrorism, though, it's historically been more about the desire for self-rule than religious per se, hasn't it?)
FWIW, my Muslim American friends are naturally sick about it. They'd been dreading it being linked to people from an Islamic region this whole time and feeling the pressure before... Now it'll just get worse. I feel for them.
Briareos H on 19/4/2013 at 14:01
That was my point, idiot. Instinctively associating the event and islamic terrorism just because chechnya is predominantly muslim is a stupid thing to do. In this case the association proves true, which is why I didn't bother with a response but if you want to insist, yes, such an association was as idiotic as pinning the Oklahoma city bombings on religion because the U.S.A. are predominantly Christian.
DDL on 19/4/2013 at 14:21
Except....statistically: not as idiotic.
Plus be honest, it doesn't need to be a confirmed "WE DID IT FOR ALLAH" connection for it to be a "connection" as far as the media is concerned.
Muzman's post could easily be read as "SO IT WAS THOSE MUSLIMS" or as "Whelp, there's the 'pin it on the muslims' connection everyone's been hunting for...*sigh*", and faetal was just confirming the association for those of us that don't have encyclopaedic knowledge of chechen belief demographics.
So there's that.
demagogue on 19/4/2013 at 14:39
I'll repeat the question in my last post. It's a little more complicated in that Chechnyan terrorism in Russia has been as much about politics as religion. Also (contradicting the point I just made a bit), these guys are young, and did it as brothers; it sounds like something they cooked up just talking to each other than as part of any vast movement.
So it seems like packaging them up in the 'Muslim terrorism as usual' bag doesn't answer so many questions. Even if it is religiously motivated, that doesn't suddenly speak for some vast movement by itself either. Not that many people or the media are predisposed to "split hairs" on it, since the rhetoric rarely distinguishes a billion people from Morocco to Indonesia, and expats pretty much everywhere else.
Dia on 19/4/2013 at 14:47
If '
the suspects in the Boston bombings are linked to those insurgencies it would mark the first time the Russian conflict had spawned a major terror attack in the United States.' ((
http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/2013/04/19/russia-caucasus-breeding-ground-for-terror/4qbLW9pxgvuOwfG9Vg7jFL/story.html)) Was this attack planned over a period of years, an isolated attack by two idealistic & zealous young men (dema's supposition sounds about right here), or part of a larger plot wherein those two men just played a small part?
Who knows. Like I said before though, I'm still surprised that the authorities managed to identify them so quickly. I wonder if it hadn't been for the mini-mart robbery if the men would've gotten away with the bombings? I mean, why stick around an area which you've just terrorized and then go out and start robbing mini-marts & shooting security police? Wtf?
Edit: I've been following Mike's (aka JediK) posts on his FB page; looks like he's waaayyy too close to what went down this morning. Stay safe, Mike!
Briareos H on 19/4/2013 at 14:52
@dema, (
http://www.gwu.edu/~ieresgwu/assets/docs/ponars/pm_0388.pdf) this paper might interest you. Replace SFD with Chechnya in the text, since it has the same socio-economical issues with the added constant pressure by the federal government and the following conclusion can almost be read as prophetic (though it is from an American perspective):
Quote Posted by PONARS Policy Memo No. 388
A crude but interesting stereotype emerges: a Muslim man in his mid-to-late twenties, with a university education that would have created for him some significant positive expectations about his future, but who has been unable to find a job and who does not enjoy the bonds of marriage to tie him in a significant way to family or to community. His college experience may have acquainted him with (or even immersed him in) radical philosophies that would further inspire him to feelings of alienation and disconnection from society as a whole. Given the proper trigger, this young man may be inclined to act on those feelings of disaffection and alienation
