faetal on 22/6/2016 at 00:06
Quote Posted by SD
Nick Clegg could have proposed a sack of cash and jet packs for every household and the public would have voted against it. They are easily led by their nose to blame everything on scapegoats, whether that be immigrants or junior coalition partners.
The UK public beggars belief in general. I can't believe the extent of the venom rising during this referendum. Everything from naive British (
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exceptionalism) exceptionalism at the milder end to xenophobia, racism and borderline fascism at the other. It's like the tone of the Leave campaign has emboldened the closet cases and it turns out there were a lot more than you'd hope.
faetal on 22/6/2016 at 00:17
Are you not even joking?
"An organisation which takes from the low and middle income people and gives to the wealthy organisations and corporations"
He's a member of the Conservative party, who have characterised themselves over the last 6 years by imposing austerity and wage stagnation in the general population and giving tax breaks and subsidies to the wealthy. Also, the EU has ruled that the Conservative party's treatment of the disabled is illegal under European human rights directives and are trying to halt the nigh indiscriminate re-classification of people as fit to work despite being barely fit to stay alive for more than a few more days in some cases.
His second point about the EU economy shrinking is misleading also, since it ignores the fact that the EU is either the biggest or second biggest economy in the world depending on which type of GDP measure used. he talks about wages going up and food prices going down after a UK exit with literally zero reference to mechanism or other justification why that would - it's full scale magical thinking.
If a rousing piece of oration is supposed to proof of anything other than that you like what Hannan is saying, then you might need to elaborate on what it is, because saying something doesn't make it true, just because you agree. You're a Eurosceptic and so is he - great. I could link a video of someone saying a load of baseless or warped talking points about the case for Remain, but I won't because I'm only really interested in factual reasons for either direction.
Gryzemuis on 22/6/2016 at 01:12
As someone else has said a few days ago: just because you currently have a government in the UK that you don't like, is not a good reason to hand over authority to the EU.
Facts are pretty meaningless in a discussion like this.
People put different weight on facts.
E.g. the fact whether my country, or any country, can make a few more bucks, just by staying in the EU, is totally unimportant to me. Like I said in my first post here: it is a matter of principle. I didn't vote for Juncker, nobody in my country voted for Juncker, Juncker doesn't answer to any of us, Juncker does not have my best interest in mind.
(
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Juncker#2015) Juncker: "There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties".
Starker on 22/6/2016 at 02:57
Yes, fears always trump facts.
Vivian on 22/6/2016 at 08:20
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
Facts are pretty meaningless in a discussion like this.
People put different weight on facts.
Facts are only meaningless if you're the worst sort of idiot.
faetal on 22/6/2016 at 08:25
Quote Posted by Vivian
Facts are only meaningless if you're the worst sort of idiot.
.
Gryzemuis on 22/6/2016 at 08:50
You guys seem a bit naive ?
The pro-EU people mainly talk about economics. And economics is about numbers. Statistics mostly, because you can't do proper science in economy. (Try to do double-blind research on some national subject. Good luck).
We all know the saying: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
You know you can make anything look completely different by massaging the numbers. Not outright lying. But taking a different sample, applying other conditions, using different axiomas, drawing different conclusions, mixing correlation and causation, putting different values on different parameters, etc. And as economics are mostly about numbers and statistics, I think anyone can draw any conclusion they want. Just look at the "economic fact" of "trickle down economics". Biggest bullshit ever, but it was sold as fact to the US people.
Basically all the economic facts boil down to: "Some people made more money during the last decades. And it's because of the EU. We think".
That's basically your facts.
Vivian on 22/6/2016 at 08:55
Statistics isn't proper science? Where the fuck did you go to school?
I mean you are right in that inappropriate (or incompetent) use of statistics can confuse or obscure whatever trends you're looking at identifying, but you're talking about basically the entire core mechanism of analytical science. If you disregard statistical analysis then you're left with opinion and anecdote. Which is only really useful for making yourself look like a prick.
"economics are mostly about numbers and statistics" yeah no fucking shit. Also, what do you think happens to the results of a double-blind test? I'll give you a clue, starts with an 's'.
