Starker on 25/6/2016 at 09:55
When it comes to remain or the leave side being uninformed, just look at some of the claims and the results:
- There will be no £350m for the NHS.
- There will be no (easy) access to the single market.
- There will be no preferential treatment from the US as far as trade agreements are concerned and the UK will have to go to the back of the queue, like it was said. But I suppose it's okay, because, as I'm led to believe, Brits are very good at queuing.
- London will lose its importance on the world stage, as companies are already looking to move their businesses and employees to elsewhere in Europe.
- Apparently, there will be no significant reduction of immigration, as it seems that the goal was only to "control" the immigration, not to reduce it: (
www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/leave-campaign-rows-back-key-pledges-immigration-nhs-spending)
- There will likely be a recession, followed by a period of very slow growth.
Add to that all the immediate damage to the economy and somehow "told you so" doesn't even begin to cover it. UK has gone from being one of the leaders of one of the most powerful unions to a country rapidly sliding downhill. You know that claim that UK will be fine as it's the 5th largest economy in the world -- well, it's already time to revise that statement as it was just overtaken by France.
Gryzemuis on 25/6/2016 at 10:01
Lots of numbers. I think I expressed my view on raw numbers. You can interpret them any way you like. (Example: Google says "lots of people suddenly ask: "what's the EU"". Interpretation: it must be leave-voters who asked it, not remain-voters. Bias at its best). Which numbers are you looking at, and what do you think they mean specifically ?
Starker on 25/6/2016 at 10:12
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
Which numbers are you looking at, and what do you think they mean specifically ?
Quote:
Finally, and perhaps most disturbingly to Remain voters, 7 in 10 Leave voters said they thought there wasn't much in yesterday's vote.
Leave voters were three times as likely to say that as Remain voters, more than three-quarters of whom thought the wrong vote would have disastrous consequences.
Doesn't leave much room for interpretation.
nickie on 25/6/2016 at 10:13
I'm comforted by the presence of another old fart, freddy. :)
I'm not sure if this has been posted already as I've not had time to read everything but there's a (
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215) petition which has already passed 100,000 mark needed for debate. Not sure what the 'rule' is or even if it exists, existed or whatever.
Quote:
Petition EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum
We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.
Starker on 25/6/2016 at 10:15
Best 2 out of 3?
N'Al on 25/6/2016 at 10:15
Rock paper scissors
Vae on 25/6/2016 at 10:18
Cage Match!
Gryzemuis on 25/6/2016 at 10:20
Fear mongering. As the remain-camp has been doing for the last months.
Quote Posted by Starker
When it comes to remain or the leave side being uninformed, just look at some of the claims and the results:
- There will be no £350m for the NHS.
That is 5 and a half pounds per person in the UK. I think the leave-camp has no problem paying 22 pounds to regain their freedom.
Quote:
- There will be no (easy) access to the single market.
This will be fixed. The majority of the world is outside the EU anyway. And as some have said, some countries in the EU (italy, france, etc) were against trade treaties with India and other countries (because of protectionism). The UK can now do more treaties with their ex-colonies.
Quote:
- There will be no preferential treatment from the US as far as trade agreements are concerned and the UK will have to go to the back of the queue, like it was said. But I suppose it's okay, because, as I'm led to believe, Brits are very good at queuing.
The US and UK have been best buddies forever. There is will a new treaty in no time.
Quote:
- London will lose its importance on the world stage, as companies are already looking to move their businesses and employees to elsewhere in Europe.
Really ? First of all, if you're on the world stage, it matters less where you are. As the world is mainly outside the EU.
Secondly, those employees are people. With wives and kids. Those families will not want to relocate to Paris or Hong Kong or New York. Just because daddy's job was relocated. We had the same argument in NL for ages. "Top management in other countries make millions a year. We need to pay our top management millions too, or they will leave the country". Bullshit. Most of those top managers will not leave the country. Because they don't want to, even if it would make a big financial difference. Same applies here.
Also, if I'm correct, most large internationals don't pay a lot of taxes in the countries where they are operating. Profits are moved to countries where they pay no or little tax. (My apologies, NL plays a huge role in that. Fuck our governments never wanting to fix that. Sorry. We make a few millions in extra tax, while fucking over other countries for billions). If large corporations and banks don't pay taxes in the UK, how bad is it when some of them leave ?
Apparently.
Again, fear mongering. Nobody knows what will happen.
Quote:
- There will likely be a recession, followed by a period of very slow growth.
Likely.
Again, fear mongering.
Quote:
Add to that all the immediate damage to the economy and somehow "told you so" doesn't even begin to cover it. UK has gone from being one of the leaders of one of the most powerful unions to a country rapidly sliding downhill. You know that claim that UK will be fine as it's the 5th largest economy in the world -- well, it's already time to revise that statement as it was just overtaken by France.
Yeah, if people don't vote the way I vote, the sky will fall.
The only thing I hear the remain-camp say is: "money money, more money, money for me, maybe money for you, money, money, money". There is more to life than money. Imho the remain-camp are the scared people, the gullible people, the selfish people, the crypto-capitalists. The remain-camp are conservatives, the sheeple, the gullible, the right-wing, the ones who'd do anything for a few bucks.
Gryzemuis on 25/6/2016 at 10:27
Quote:
Finally, and perhaps most disturbingly to Remain voters, 7 in 10 Leave voters said they thought there wasn't much in yesterday's vote.
Leave voters were three times as likely to say that as Remain voters, more than three-quarters of whom thought the wrong vote would have disastrous consequences.
Quote Posted by Starker
Doesn't leave much room for interpretation.
People who just lost something are likely to be more upset. And they will exaggerate more. These polls were taken on the day when the result of the referendum was published. Two football teams play. One wins, one loses. The fans of the winning team will smile, go home, and drink a cup of tea. The losers will drink themselves into oblivion, go out in the streets, riot and try to start WWIII. Winning or losing has an impact on how important you think something is. Again, numbers. You can interpret them any way you want. But that doesn't always tell you the truth.
You could also interpret is as: remain-voters are more arrogant than leave-voters. They think them losing a vote is more important than the other side winning.
Or leave-voters may expect there to be less financial impact. And they may be right. Remain-voters think the sky will fall. And they might be wrong.
