Starker on 25/6/2016 at 10:31
No, you don't understand me, these things are already happening. Companies are already moving their businesses out and scouting for locations in Europe. Leave supporters are already backtracking on their promises. The recession predictions are being made by independent institutions. The US has confirmed that UK will have to be in the back of the queue.
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
Fear mongering.
Inline Image:
http://i.imgur.com/c4jt321.pngGryzemuis on 25/6/2016 at 11:06
Oh, now I get it.
So during the last few weeks, corporations have said (threatened, cough) that they will move offices when the UK leaves the EU ? They actually told journalists that they are already scouting other locations ?
And the US have said they will let the UK drown as if it was just another 3rd world country, if they leave the EU ? And they even said that officially, like to journalists, when journalists asked them ?
And a recession is guaranteed, because independent institutions said so ? Maybe even so independent that they survive by taking money from a) the UK government, who was against a Brexit, or maybe b) they take money from EU subsidies, or c) they get sponsored by corporations ? Saying you are independent doesn't mean you need no money and you have no historical, financial or personal ties with anything in the world.
Stock market is down. Oh, the horror. That has a tremendous impact on the common people in the UK. I bet cab-drivers all around the country wll be on strike now. Stock market has to go up again ! (Note, if the stock market stays down over the next decade(s) that will have a bad impact on common people's pensions. But I expect it will be back to normal within a few months. And when we talk about the stock market, my opinion is 100% as much valuable as the opinion of any expert).
I want to see things. I don't want other people tell me what they think might potentially maybe happen in the future, someday, maybe, they think. The remain-camp are using the scare-strategy to the max. It worked for the Scottish referendum. It almost worked for the Brexit one.
heywood on 25/6/2016 at 11:32
I want to comment on this "back of the queue" thing. It is a totally empty threat for several reasons:
1. There is no queue. The US negotiates lots of trade deals simultaneously.
2. A bilateral trade deal can be done much faster if the US and UK want it. TTIP was dragging on and on and on. Remember, it was originally going to be done in 2014. But the outlook prior to the Brexit vote was 2018 or 2019. With TPP and TTIP, the Obama administration is learning that it's really hard to get big multi-national trade deals done. And with the outlook for TTIP continuing to look worse over time, why wouldn't the US want to negotiate with the UK?
3. Do you really need another trade deal with the US? Are you happy with the current trading relationship? I am. Do you really want Investor-State Dispute Settlements? I don't.
Project Fear was way over the top. I wonder if there was a backlash to it that inflated the leave vote.
Starker on 25/6/2016 at 11:45
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
So during the last few weeks, corporations have said (threatened, cough) that they will move offices when the UK leaves the EU ? They actually told journalists that they are already scouting other locations ?
See Harvester's link.
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
And the US have said they will let the UK drown as if it was just another 3rd world country, if they leave the EU ? And they even said that officially, like to journalists, when journalists asked them ?
(
http://www.euronews.com/2016/06/25/obama-stands-by-back-of-queue-warning-on-post-brexit-uk-trade-deal/)
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
And a recession is guaranteed, because independent institutions said so ?
I never said it was guaranteed, I said it was likely. And the expert opinions of places like the LSE Centre for Economic Performance or the National Institute of Economic and Social Research are not to be discarded easily.
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
Stock market is down. Oh, the horror. That has a tremendous impact on the common people in the UK. I bet cab-drivers all around the country wll be on strike now.
Not only the stock market, the pound is down as well.
Starker on 25/6/2016 at 11:53
Quote Posted by heywood
I want to comment on this "back of the queue" thing. It is a totally empty threat for several reasons:
Okay, if it was an empty threat, why repeat it after Brexit? The US will stick to its empty threat?
Quote Posted by heywood
1. There is no queue. The US negotiates lots of trade deals simultaneously.
Obviously there is no literal queue. It simply means that the UK will not be given priority.
faetal on 25/6/2016 at 11:56
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
Lots of numbers. I think I expressed my view on raw numbers. You can interpret them any way you like. (Example: Google says "lots of people suddenly ask: "what's the EU"". Interpretation: it must be leave-voters who asked it, not remain-voters. Bias at its best). Which numbers are you looking at, and what do you think they mean specifically ?
So basically there is no point talking to you unless the words out of my mouth are "I agree"? Got it. I'll ignore you from now on.
heywood on 25/6/2016 at 12:10
Quote Posted by Starker
Okay, if it was an empty threat, why repeat it after Brexit? The US will stick to its empty threat?
His spokesman was asked whether he stood by it, and he said yes. What do you expect, a politician to admit they were bullshitting?
Starker on 25/6/2016 at 13:19
Well, if you consider this statement to be an empty threat, you might as well consider the statement of the special relationship continuing as an empty promise.
SubJeff on 25/6/2016 at 13:20
Wow. Gryzemuis you're being a bit narrow minded here aren't you?
Look - this was a democratic decision and democracy won. It's done now and lots of people had lots of reasons to vote whichever way they did. You have to respect that.
The things is this; there are now three important bits of information coming out. 1. The Leave campaign are already backtracking on things they said all along. 2. Businesses really are moving out and 3. It's becoming clearer and clearer that large swathes of the Leave voters didn't understand what they were voting for really, beyond "I'm proud of my country. We won the war. Too many non-English in my local park on a Saturday" and "I don't want Muslims coming from Europe."
It's real, is't dumb as hell.
