dj_ivocha on 28/6/2016 at 10:19
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
Funny thing: the exact thing that you're mocking as impractical and crazy has been the model that Iceland, Norway, Switzerland, and Canada have followed. By all accounts it's worked out pretty well for those countries.
Maybe it's only working so well for them BECAUSE there is a EU nearby, to which they can "latch on" and profit from its stability and giant common market? Well, except for Canada, but that one is a whole other story and not really comparable to anything in Europe, anyway. If everyone followed UK's example, nobody would be better off.
heywood on 28/6/2016 at 18:49
Quote Posted by Chade
I don't see what would cause the EU to grant more concessions at this point. If power brokers in the UK prevent a split, then the UK has just revealed one big bargaining chip (we're not really happy with being in Europe and walking away is vaguely on the cards so you had better keep us happy) is fake, and they've given the rest of Europe the middle finger for good measure. How exactly do recent events give them a stronger bargaining position?
One possible point of leverage is concern among certain members that without the UK, the power balance within the EU is too heavily weighted toward Germany. Another point is concern that letting the UK go will lead to other independence movements.
Having said that, the federalists who are trying to evolve the EU towards a United States of Europe would rather see the UK leave than give any concessions. They were probably quietly hoping for the Leave side to win anyway, because the UK has been an obstacle to their long term plans.
Quote Posted by Starker
On the other hand, EU can't really take a hardline position either. It is in the best interest of the Eurozone (and the UK) to come to an agreement as fast as possible to settle the chaos and uncertainty. Already (
http://www.politico.eu/pro/5-takeaways-on-a-possible-italian-bank-bailout/) Italy is looking to skirt EU rules and bail out its banks in the confusion. Not to mention that far right movements and terror organisations are likely to be looking to exploit the confusion for maximum effect.
On the other hand, I don't think it's in the best interests of anybody to make major constitutional decisions in haste, out of fear, based on the result of a glorified public opinion poll.
Quote Posted by dj_ivocha
Maybe it's only working so well for them BECAUSE there is a EU nearby, to which they can "latch on" and profit from its stability and giant common market? Well, except for Canada, but that one is a whole other story and not really comparable to anything in Europe, anyway. If everyone followed UK's example, nobody would be better off.
Iceland, Norway, Switzerland, and Liechtenstein are part of the common market but not the EU. Iceland, Norway, and Liechtenstein are EEA members. Switzerland is not an EEA member but manages to remain in the common market anyway. If the UK ends up leaving the EU, they will no doubt remain in the common market, either by joining the EEA or negotiating a bilateral treaty with the EU like Switzerland did. Exiting the EU does not mean exiting the common market.
SD on 28/6/2016 at 20:32
Quote Posted by heywood
Exiting the EU does not mean exiting the common market.
But this seems to defeat the purpose of leaving the EU in the first place, which is to be able to keep the forriners out.
scumble on 29/6/2016 at 08:55
Well you see that the anti immigration angle is only a small proportion of people who are hung up on it.
We're on to how the people who actually have to deal with the mess handle it in reality.
Starker on 29/6/2016 at 09:30
Yeah, I have colleagues who are right in the middle of it (Brits working in EU institutions). "Mess" doesn't really even begin to approach the mere thought of an idea of beginning to describe it..
scumble on 29/6/2016 at 11:13
From a distanced perspective it's almost amusing the level of disruption caused by a stupid short term political bet. I mean it in a sort of disappointed sense of it being what I expect from politics. None of it was related to any British person's best interests. I can only hope there are sensible people on the ground working through it who can see it as it is, rather than some symbolic national gesture. It's almost like the uk has absent mindedly left the EU while it wasn't paying attention.
demagogue on 29/6/2016 at 11:46
Didn't somebody sneeze once and the Czech Rep & Slovakia split up? That's what that part reminded me of. Wasn't any deep plan; it just happened almost cartoonishly and people dealt with it.
But in other news my dear Indian-Brit friend born in London got a half-full can of Stella thrown at her from a car yesterday to the charming tune of "fuckin' Paki go back to where you're from." which made it real to me although honestly, aside from being vile dross of course, it's just so disappointingly cliche I wonder if they even care how lazy their insults sound (especially compared to the Scots' insult prowess on recent display).
Edit. Incidently I'm meeting with an EU delegation to Japan tomorrow! On human rights in Asia & Japan. Probably Brexit won't come up, but I can't say I'm not curious about their perspective.
Also should say, even though I posted here a lot, having researched the legal side of the EU & I'm def pro-globalization/integration in any context (well except post conflict/democratization, you can't rush it on those states or you get Milosovich or Hamas elected), but I'm still trying to check myself with a little humility that I'm outside the world it's happening to, it's not my battle, and I can only wish everyone in the UK the best in figuring out where to go.
scumble on 29/6/2016 at 14:25
To be honest the racial slur could have happened in London at any time. There are plenty of ignorant racist animals around. They don't need much of an excuse.
SD on 29/6/2016 at 15:09
The vote has definitely emboldened the racists though. They feel like they don't have to bottle it up now, because the referendum has legitimised their hatred. Which, in a way, it has.
SubJeff on 30/6/2016 at 21:31
It's coming out in floods now and is undeniable. Idiots are feeling they can stay their idiot things on the streets.
